Better Sign Shop Podcast

Bryant Gillespie: Learn how to build
a better sign and print shop from a

few crusty sign guys who've made more
mistakes than they care to admit.

Conversations and advice on
pricing, sales, marketing,

workflow, growth, and more.

You are listening to The Better Sign
Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter COIs,

Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.

​

Before we jump into the episode,
I'd like to give a shout out to

our sponsor, GCI Digital Imaging
Grand Format Printer to the Trade.

We talk a lot about outsourcing on
the podcast and the importance of.

Good partners and gci Digital Imaging
is a good partner to have owner TJ

bak and his team focus on providing
killer customer service just the

way grandmother used to make it.

If you're interested in learning
their approach to business, hop

back into the archives to episode
nine where the guys and I interview

TJ about customer experience.

So if you're looking for a high quality
trade printer for banners, wraps,

and other printed graphics that your
customers throw at you, check out

GCI Digital [email protected].

All right, guys, we're back with the next
edition of the Better Sign Shop podcast

with me, as always, the sign shop Yoda,
wearing the baby Yoda helmet or hat.

Got Peter Caris.

Peter Kourounis: How are you, Pete?

Pretty good.

Pretty good.

I'm happy that no shave November is over.

At the filming at the
time of this podcast.

It is now December 1st.

I finally shaved it all off.

It was getting ridiculously long.

Really excited about that.

Also, I am a year older.

I just celebrated my birthday,
so I am now a whopping 3,

Bryant Gillespie: 8 38.

Oh, congrats.

Dude.

I didn't even know it was your birthday.

I feel like I

Peter Kourounis: know every, everybody
wishes me a happy birthday on Facebook.

Everybody did.

I even think Chris did.

But, but you, I,

Bryant Gillespie: but you

Peter Kourounis: but me.

Well, my main squeeze

Bryant Gillespie: forgot it's birthday.

What a jerk.

What a jerk Mike did.

Peter Kourounis: Sorry, dude.

Mi Mike did.

Sorry, dude.

Mike's not here, but
he, I'll give him props.

He was like, happy birthday man.

Appreciate you.

Yeah.

Bryant Gillespie: I'm sorry dude.

I apologize.

I'll make it up.

And

Peter Kourounis: you're knee,
you're knee deep in like every

little bit of project, so I get it.

You'll have a, you get a pass

Bryant Gillespie: and, and flu season too.

So, yeah, we're missing the sign burrito.

The chi changa.

What?

It's not as fun when he is not here
to do the nicknames, but I know we

had, um, cr Hey, what was the, what
was the one that Chris gave him?

The Sign Sign Design Samurai.

Peter Kourounis: That was a good one.

I don't know, man.

I don't know.

Isn't he like the Sign Shop general?

The sign The sign general?

Chris Fleniken: Yeah.

I,

Peter Kourounis: I, listen, we just need
to stick to something between you and I.

We just need to like, we need to make
him like a name plaque for Christmas.

Like that's it.

Like that, that's gonna be it.

It's gonna be set in the stone.

Like if and if I had it my
way, that Shimmy Chango would

definitely be the winner for me.

Bryant Gillespie: I like
the Jimmy Chaga for sure.

Crusty on the outside.

Fluffy on the inside.

.
Peter Kourounis: Love it.

Love it.

Bryant Gillespie: Updates from me, man.

I've been at home with my wife sick
all week, and I, I gotta say I've got

a new found respect for everything
that she does on a daily basis.

Mm.

It's kind of one of those things
where it's like, you know, but you,

you have no idea type of thing.

, like, I see everything that she
does throughout the week and how

she keeps our house hold together
and does everything for the kids.

Uh, but, but like actually
doing all that and try to.

Take care of the kids and your wife and
I still have some type of involvement

in work is extremely difficult,
and she does it every single day.

So I feel like I have to
give a shout out to my wife.

I hope you feel better by
the time this is released.

If not, we're gonna have a problem.

But I, you're amazing.

Um,

Peter Kourounis: ah, you are amazing.

You are, you're all amazing.

You're all amazing.

Your girls are amazing.

You're amazing.

You, you're a very generous guy.

You, and you know what?

You wouldn't be the man you
are today without the strength

of a strong woman behind you.

There

Bryant Gillespie: you go.

Behind every good man,
great woman is a great.

Yeah, so what are we talking about today?

We are talking about a question that
has come up over and over again from a

lot of our owners that we've talked to,
either in our Facebook community for

sign trap, owners, plug plug, or on some
of our mastermind calls, which is, Hey,

I am in a small town, small-ish town.

Depending on how you define
small, how do I grow my shop?

How do I grow my business?

And we've got a special guest
joining us today, one of my best

friends in the whole state of Texas.

Probably my best friend in the
state of Texas, Chris Flynn.

Chris runs real graphics and they
have bought up just about every

other printing and signed business
in their small town of Lufkin, Texas.

Like, seriously, every time
I talk to him, he's bought

another business there in town.

So excited to jump into
that conversation with him.

All right, so we're back
from technical difficulties.

We've got my man Chris Flynn from Rio
Graphics in Lufkin, Texas joining us.

Uh, as I mentioned, Chris is probably my
favorite dude in the state of Texas, and

I know there's a ton of dudes down there.

Chris Fleniken: Good to be here.

Thanks for having me.

Appreciate it.

It's gonna be a lot of

fun.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, Chris.

All right, man.

So what's the origin story?

Like, give us, give us the real graphics
story because every time I talk to

you, you've bought another business or
you've expanded or no, you've, you've

got all these different things going on.

And how big is your team now?

They're, they're

Chris Fleniken: like, we're we
still hover around 25 people?

Cause we, we'll get up there sometimes,
but I think 25 is a good average.

Sometimes we might peak out, but 28 or so.

Yeah, happy to share.

So, uh, I love hearing in the group
all these comments about how people

stumbled into the sign business.

No one intentionally planned it.

My story's kind of similar along par
with that as far as, you know, I was

planning do, do youth ministry work.

I had been impacted by a great
youth pastor growing up, and I was

like, man, that's what I wanna do.

Have fun with teenagers, hang
out and have fun on forever.

And, and that's what I
kinda started out doing.

And then along the path, you know,
different churches that I was involved

with and working at Design came up
designing graphics and logos, making

videos to getting things printed,
getting shirts printed, things like that.

And so along the path, just
figured out stuff along the way to.

Making things happen.

I, I really enjoyed that part.

And so years into it, I was still a
single youth guy, you know, having

a good time doing the youth ministry
side, but needed to make a living.

And so, uh, one of the youth
pastor buddies ma said some

magic words to me one time.

He said, Hey, how much would you charge
me to design a poster, an event poster

for my group and print it for me?

I was like, man, yeah.

Heck yeah.

25 bucks, man.

I'll, I'll make you a poster.

And it just kinda started the idea
of like, I could do this for other

people, but it never was an idea
of like, I have a business one day.

You know, it just was,
and it just happened.

And so my passions kind of just tweaked
that way, you know, just enjoyed working

with customers on projects and what,
you know, and in my first year, I was

just, you know, side hustling and doing
this and that and, and they would, you

know, throw the burden on me of like,
Hey, here's the, here's what I want.

And then we'd make an event poster or
a flyer and then we'd go get shirts

printed or whatever for whatever
event's going on and things like that.

So I was just kind of
middleman in a lot of it.

And that's kind of, how much
did you earn that first year?

Yeah.

Not enough to stay afloat, , you know?

Uh, but yeah, so I like
throw like a number

Bryant Gillespie: out at me.

No, I really have no

Chris Fleniken: clue.

There was no books involved.

It was like, write that check lit
and uh, you know, you got cat,

you know, it was really simple.

But that really did just start like
this new excite my cited passion.

And so within that year, kind of was
starting a business and luckily I put

the name real graphics on it because
I was gonna do like real design and a.

Printing.

I was so close on those and
luckily, graphics was a broad one,

so it worked out for the future.

Um, but that's kinda
how I stumbled into it.

And then just kind of slowly got going.

Um, you know, I rented a little
office space just because I

bought a little poster printer
that was an antique at the time.

Design Jet when you guys started 2007.

End of 2007, I rented a little office
space and uh, I bought a 1995 HP Design

Jet 3005 CP printer that was 10 or 12
years old, used many times before me.

And, uh, anyway, but that kind
of helped me get limping along.

At least I could had something
in the office to hit print on.

Uh, but anyway, I started with
that and then was outsourcing.

And so nowadays, like fast forward,
we do a lot of stuff in-house,

but it comes from those pain
points that I had of outsourcing

and just relying on someone else.

And not that, I mean great vendors
is what got me here, but just.

That was what it was all about.

At first, I couldn't do anything
but printing a poster in-house.

But yeah, I just had a
good time doing that.

And then I, I would've
hustled it along too.

I had a day job for a year
working at our local newspaper.

I talked him into hiring me with this much
design experience and, uh, I enjoyed, I

mean, it was making like newspaper ads and
it wasn't that exciting, but it was really

good practice and it got me a little,
like fast and quick, but I would like plan

meetings at my office at my lunch break.

So I'd be like, you know, oh yeah, I can
talk to you about that shirt project.

How about noon?

And I'll see you at the office.

And I'd rush over across the, you know,
down the street to my little design shop

office where I had, you know, a little
desk and a little printer in the corner.

That was it.

And, uh, but it was, that's kinda
how I got started that first year.

And I just kind of planned it around that.

So every day I'd pretty much
have a noon and a five o'clock

meeting, and then I'd work in the
evening getting the stuff done.

But I was.

Shirt maker, the signed printer, you know,
I just, vinyl cutters, you know, all that.

Do it all guy Spanish show for the
first while and then, um, but yeah,

fast forward down the road, man.

I had an intern along the way
that was really good help.

Kind of a guy that came along, wanted
to learn some stuff, jumped in.

Uh, eventually I paid him a
little something every week.

Um, eventually I got an email from a
girl that was a design student and,

um, wanted to get some experience.

So this was 2010 and I'm like, man,
I got a lot of work going on, a lot

of different projects at that time.

And I was like, I can give
you experience but no pay.

And the girl was desperate
and said, sure, she'd love it.

And, uh, came in and she was fantastic.

Like she really knew her, like knew more
than me when I said I needed the artwork

like this and Vector and, you know, paths
welded together, fonts out outlined.

She knew it all and it was amazing.

And then her creativity.

Way beyond me.

Um, I, I like faked it to get
us going, but like she was a

talented artist, talented designer.

Um, by the end of the summer,
she's fallen in love with me

and ended up marrying this girl.

So I met my wife, uh, in the business.

Um, so that was really amazing.

So she was a huge asset
though, that really just took

our design to the next level.

And I think foundation of our success
really has been that really good design,

creativity, um, overdelivering customers,
what they kinda come in expecting or

asking for, um, if we can wow 'em with
the design, they're hook, they're gonna

love getting the sign or whatever it be.

And so we could kind of run from there.

So question for you, dude.

Yeah.

Bryant Gillespie: If, if we play
this back for m or is she gonna be

mad that you called her Desperate.

Chris Fleniken: No, I mean,
desperate for some work.

She said No, I, I'm just picking man.

Yeah, no, she, she, she said, she's like,
she sent out all these emails and like no

one emailed her back and I was the only
person to respond and say like, yeah, you

could come and get some experience here.

So it worked out.

But, but like two weeks in I was like,
Hey, I gotta start paying something

because like she really was helpful.

I was expecting her just to
be a body in the shop, but,

Have to teach along the way.

You know, I didn't expect for her to
have such a great grasp on everything.

So it was really, really great.

Um, but then, and then it
just kind of fell in place.

Cause like she went back to school for
a while and we actually did start dating

and stuff long distance, but like other
people started following in my lap,

basically like for great, talented people.

Like another great designer
came in, joined the team.

Um, from there, just other
good like production team.

My brother started working
with me around that time.

It was really great at the production
side of cranking out signage,

weed and vinyl, installing vinyl.

So we figured a lot of stuff out in those
early years, which was really fun and

exciting, but exhausting at the same time.

You guys know how that goes.

But that was kind of
the path we got going.

And then every few years it just
seemed like we'd kind of get to another

level of buying, piece of equipment
that would allow us to do more.

Eventually we'd maxed out our
little 2200 square foot space.

Grew into and there was no more
space to grow into in that building.

And 2016 we bought this, uh, building
right now and it was, uh, 13,000 square

foot building We've added on a little bit.

So we're at 15,000 square feet now.

And that was a game changer
cause it really led us grow

the business as we needed to.

I mean, back in the old shop
days, if we needed to cut an

aluminum panel sign down, it was.

Set a table up outside,
run an extension cord.

I mean, just

Bryant Gillespie: I've, I've done that.

I can't terrible tell you how terrible,
how, how many panels that we cut at half

on a couple of saw horses out back of the,

Chris Fleniken: the old shop.

If I had standard operating procedures
back then, it would be pretty fun.

You like first run the extension
cord, second hit the tall horses

third, whatever, you know.

Oh, rough man.

It was good days blade.

Uh, what was a acm?

I don't even know if I
figured out what a ACM was.

. Four years later, man, there
was so many, like I went to my

supplier one time to pick up stuff
cause I got a desperate pitch.

So I had to drive a couple hours
to like go get something and I'm in

there and I'm like, what is this?

Oh, that's PVC board.

I didn't know.

I mean, like, you know, no one, there was
no sales rep in my area coming to say,

Hey, these are the things you need to do.

I just, if you didn't know
to ask for it or whatever.

And their websites back
then, you know, really stunk.

Man.

I learned a ton just walking
through that warehouse.

I was like, can you walk me around?

Lemme just see what substrates you have.

And it was light bulbs going off.

I think that's seriously whenever
I found out about ACM panel by just

seeing it, I'm like, I need this.

What is, you know?

Yeah.

So, man, I wish someone would've taught
me along the way, but figured out there

are things that we know now, right?

Yeah.

So anyway, so that, that's
kinda the, the beginning.

Uh, we're in Lufkin, uh, Lufkin's,
about a 50,000 people town.

We're surrounded by the, in the county,
a lot more little cities around us.

So we got about a hundred thousand
people in our one hour reach,

uh, which has helped us to grow,
I think, in a town our size.

And, um, well, one thing that we've
had to do is we've kind of grew

on what I say, sideways in our
abilities to do more for our customers

because there's not a lot of people.

Are doing all these different things.

So if they can come to one shop, get more
things done, I think that's helped us

to survive and grow through these years.

Because there's been times where
maybe a January, February where shirt

business really slowed down, but at
least we were doing signage and all

these other things to stay afloat.

I remember one year we were doing
a lot of websites and luckily man,

we did hardly any signage and very
little other stuff in December.

But we did several website builds and
it really helped carry us through.

And so I think offering a lot of
stuff in our smaller rural area has

been a big, big help to our survival
and growth through the years.

So yeah, that's kinda how we got
started and everything was outsourced.

And then basically we've become a pain
point, like t-shirts for instance,

we would outsource seeing one guy
down the street, uh, did a good job.

But two got to a point where our
orders were getting bigger and

more frequent and eventually we
had to do something about it.

Started printing t-shirts
in my brother's garage.

Um, eventually built a little.

Affordable building shop behind our
office and that roughed us through

a few more years until we were able
to move into the building right now.

You know?

But like a lot of things that limited
us in the shop we were in before when

we started going was like, we didn't
have two 20 power to add any, like the

latex printers we wanted, you know,
we didn't have space for it anyway.

You know, laminator had
to be done elsewhere.

I mean, it's just a lot
of pain points installs.

We'd borrow a shop down the street to
go do some installs at and a tip shop.

And so we just had to do a lot of
flexing to make things work and took

a lot of energy to do simple task.

We got this build bigger building.

A lot of those things became more
routine and that to start growing

and scaling up little bit better.

So that was a huge help in our growth.

And so now we offer, talk to us about

Bryant Gillespie: what, give us
the, the whole scope of what you

guys offer, what you guys offer
in house, because you guys do.

Like, out of every shop that I've
talked to, you guys might do the

most stuff in-house that I've ever

Chris Fleniken: seen.

So when you walk in, we've
got front sales team.

So we have three or four sales reps, uh,
that are talking with customers, taking

orders, boom, phone, email, or in person.

Um, and then you go back from there.

We got production starts.

We have an apparel department
running embroidery, sublimation,

uh, D T G and screen printing.

We've got a full small format print shop.

So we're doing digital printing
and it's, I mean, I'd say a smaller

operation, but just real versatile.

So notepads, envelope printing, we do a
lot of mailers, um, direct mail stuff.

So we're preparing it, sending
it straight to the post office.

I postcards all those great things in.

Does everybody

Bryant Gillespie: still
do NCR forms in Texas?

Chris Fleniken: Man, they're
running like seriously?

No, like right now they're running
numbered NCR forms and it's a

big long run of so many thousand.

And so they're like,
don't, don't stop anything.

It's just they don't wanna
interrupt the numbering.

So those are still running hot right now.

Uh, that used to be bread and butter for

Bryant Gillespie: us on some of the, like
the local businesses, like especially

like the service businesses, like the
plumbers or the Yeah man contractors.

Like, Hey, we gotta have the
three part number tickets because

that's how everything is organized
in a, a capital somewhere.

Chris Fleniken: Hey, we can even
bite it in a booklet for you, man.

We can do just, we Gotcha.

So yeah, stuff like that.

The print shop's super great
and versatile, you know, all

the way down to like threaten.

Invitations for baby shower and
you know, dressing the envelopes,

mailing 'em out, turnkey.

So real versatile on that.

Our signage department's
pretty wide in signage.

We have the vehicle wraps, decals,
vehicle wraps for vehicles, signed

production items like yard signs and
banners and those types of things.

Um, and then also in that same areas,
the same fabrication, building the sign

cabinets, installing channel letter sets,
doing installs for, uh, electrical signs.

Um, we've finally actually done a
couple, uh, digital board signs.

That was something we've been
growing into the last few years.

And so, um, but yeah, so
pretty versatile little shop.

We have engraving also in
signage, laser engraver, flatbed

printers, uh, laminators.

We had 10 foot wide roll printers
and do more banners in house.

We got a couple latex printers
to keep the vinyl getting printed

and wraps and stuff like that.

So, versatile shop, we're not the biggest.

We're not, I mean, I love seeing
some of the bigger ones that just

are running all these flatbeds and
running, you know, just all this.

So, but we're very versatile
and so it's all about just

Bryant Gillespie: kind.

There's, there's hardly anything
you guys couldn't produce in.

Chris Fleniken: So we do love
that 85 to 95%, depending on

the month, is done in house.

So very few like fabric display stuff.

We, you know, we outsource that.

Probably'll always outsource that.

You know, every now and then there's
some unique printing products of

like foil printing, um, some things
like, uh, specialty, you know,

laminations of paper products.

We might outsource those jobs.

But yeah, we love being able to kind
of keep a, a hold on all the quality,

the pricing, the stuff, but the
downside, and I mean, Peter, you, you

could definitely go off of this one
for me, but is all the headaches that

come with that, you know what I mean?

I've heard you guys comment about
some of the beauty of sending some

things out, let someone else do it,
focus on what they're good at, you

know, but kinda been in that struggle.

So yeah, it's just been good.

And I think just.

I think our town, maybe it's not just me,
but I, I swear we're a last minute Lufkin.

You know, it just seems like
everything's always outta rush.

You know what I mean?

Like the Christmas parade, we know it's
coming in December every year, but all

week has been, could you print me the,
you know, and it's like, so to have those

abilities in house, it is awesome to be
able to come through with customers and,

and it's not a big deal to like, Hey,
you know what, what's six more sheets of

quarter running on that printer today?

It's, it's great, it's good.

But if we didn't have that ability
in house, we would be in a tight

spot and have to say no a lot more.

So I do love that, but I think
I'm getting the gray hair from.

Keeping all those things going
and there's not three pieces of

equipment that could break down today.

There's 20, you know, so there's
so many more things that could go

wrong and, and problems to overcome.

And so that's kinda, I, I don't think

Bryant Gillespie: that's,
um, that last minute deal.

I don't, I don't think
that's a Lufkin problem.

No, just, I just tell

Chris Fleniken: you, I think that's
why the sign shop groups have been

such good therapy this last year is
just like, okay, you know, and I'm not

the only one or we've done that too.

And so it's been kinda good to hear
some other guys' stories and and relate.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

Especially in the industry that's pr you
know, traditionally kind of closed off,

you know, that's, that's where we're
having a lot of fun with this on the,

the podcast and the group and everything.

I know Peter and I and Michael, like
this has been, yeah, probably the

highlight of my sign career, I would say.

Getting to just talk shop with
everybody every single day.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Chris Fleniken: But, and I love that
the signage community seems to be

a lot more opening and helping and.

Probably plenty critical, but
maybe a little supportive.

But like apparel side, like, I
don't think screen printers, like,

they don't share tips as much.

They're not like, I don't
think as much is a signage.

So I mean, we do a little bit of both.

And so I'm, you know, you know,
different groups and stuff and you, but

Peter Kourounis: you wanna know
why I, I have a theory on this

and I actually believe you.

Uh, not only I believe you, I agree
with you and you're in the screen

printing business, which I came
from Bryant's part of, you know,

you, you, you dabbled in it as well.

There's really not too many
ways to skin this cat, right?

You have to burn screens, you
have to get a silk screen machine.

You have to dry it.

If you can't figure it out, you
shouldn't be in the business, right?

From a design perspective, setting
up your processes, setting up your,

your, your spot colors, burning
those screens, it's all the same.

Nobody does it differently.

Maybe some people do it
a bit more efficiently.

They have larger shops, better equipment.

Okay.

But I'm not gonna talk to you about how
to set up your shop and compete with me.

Yeah.

Right?

Chris Fleniken: Yeah,
because it's the same,

Peter Kourounis: becau uh, I'll
take this from a pricing course.

It's the same unit of work, right?

Yeah.

It's

Bryant Gillespie: the
same medium every time.

You know, like it's, yeah, yeah.

It's, it's kind of freeing because
hey, you know, you're printing on a

garment and depending on your pallet
size, it's like, Hey, we're not

gonna do anything other than like
12 by 16 or 14 by 20 or something

on a a t-shirt or a bag or a hoodie.

So those constraints are, are definitely
cool on the design side, where you're

kind of working against and you come
up with different ways to decorate a

shirt or, you know, make it stand out.

But yeah, process wise, it's.

Peter Kourounis: It's, I could buy, I
could buy the shirts from the same place.

I can buy my ink from the same place.

Yeah.

You know, so from, in a lot, in a lot of
areas, when you're in a, when you're a

shirt shop, it's all about efficiency.

Can you, how quickly can you pump
out a shirt for a customer to pay,

uh, a price That's probably pretty
consistent in almost every market.

Mm-hmm.

. Right?

True.

I could buy the shirts the same place,
I could get the ink from the same place.

Okay.

So that's why I believe that there
isn't a lot of help in that industry

because it's very consistent.

Learn it, watch a YouTube video.

Almost everybody does it the same way
in the sign business and everybody

here knows this, but so I might
be stating the obvious, but there

are so many ways to skin a cat.

I could show you an image of a sign
and we all can come up with probably

a dozen ways that that could be made.

And that's also what fluctuates the price.

That's also what fluctuates the workflow.

The costs, the labor factor.

So there's a lot more moving
parts in this business.

And, and before we kind of dump, jump
into it here, Chris, I, I, I kind of

wanna go back to the beginning part
of this conversation, if we may.

You know, Bryant gave you a
really great introduction, but

we never really touched it.

What businesses other than this one do you
own and how do you afford that time to do

Chris Fleniken: it all?

Working on the time part sign
business was the main thing.

Got going.

I've always thought the storage
unit business was interesting.

And so when a customer came in as.

2011, 12, somewhere in that range.

And, uh, was talking to my wife about
some si a logo and some signage for

the sign, bus, uh, storage business.

They were gonna start up, bought
a property, blah, blah, blah.

That wasn't existing business,
but he was gonna make it a go.

And, um, so she made the comment to
him, like my husband's always mentioned,

he wanted to do storage business.

That would be a cool industry to get
into or whatever, made some comment.

Well, the guy called back was like,
Hey, have you printed the signs yet?

She's like, no's said, hold off.

I, I found something
else I wanna do instead.

I think I just wanna get out
from underneath this property.

Would y'all be interested?

And so went, looked at
it and it was perfect.

It was 52 units, an old property that
just wasn't in an active business

and hadn't been for like 10 years.

And so we bought that, turned
it into storage unit business.

It's been good for us and a good diverse
option, you know, to have along the way.

And then, um, I bought the building
that we used to be, uh, rent from.

We bought that whole little building.

So it's three different tenants.

So I got a little
commercial building there.

Uh, we upkeep and, and, and rent out.

It stays nice and rented.

Uh, some to some great businesses.

Bought an ice house in 2020.

You know, the vending machine, ice houses.

Um,

Bryant Gillespie: how much
paper do you have, Pete?

You could be here.

Chris Fleniken: What I'm trying,
I'm trying, I've got a lot of

Peter Kourounis: goats.

I'm like, wow, this guy
went to storage unit.

I'm like, okay, let's
keep going about that.

Let's do some research

Bryant Gillespie: there.

So the, the ice house, and I
didn't even know this was a thing.

Yeah.

They don't have this in, they're

Chris Fleniken: not your area.

Yeah.

So basically it's like a free standing,
you know, 10 by probably 20 little

building structure that basically has
a big ice machine in there and a big

bin and it dispenses bags of ice out.

So it's an ice vending machine.

Um, I always thought they were cool.

Made a comment to a local guy
about like, Hey, do you own

the machine on your property?

I think that's really a neat business.

And he basically was
like, no, I don't own it.

I just lease the property.

I know the guy who does, and next
thing I know, he comes to see me

at my office, like, talks me into,
Hey, you wanna buy this from me?

. And I was a sucker and jumped in.

I thought it would be a great, you know,
again, a diverse option to jump into.

Um, we did start a Lufkin Real
Estate magazine back in 2012,

and it was basically, there was
just not a printed publication of

real estate listings in our area.

Um, and that was really good.

It went for a while, I think, till 2017.

Um, so I tried, I've tried several
things that didn't really take off

and do much, but, but yeah, as far
as businesses, we still got, um, the

storage unit business is, is, is good.

Um, the ice house is up and down
depending how things are rolling.

We love Hot Summers and we sell
a lot of ice during the summer.

Let's see, let's see.

That's not that bad.

Now I bought some businesses
along the way, and merged in.

I was, wait, I was waiting, dude.

So before, I was always thinking
why would someone buy an existing

business when you could start it?

And I guess because I had started
a few things, it just made sense

of just like get it off the ground
and running the way you want it.

You don't have overhead of buying
something, you know, preexisting.

You don't.

I don't, I just, it didn't seem like
a really great fit until it was 2015.

I made a little goal list and like one
of the biggest items on there, and a

big pain point we had was em embroidery.

I mean, it just continued
to grow as a demand.

We were outsourcing this great
person locally that was doing it

at our house, but again, the orders
were getting bigger, more frequent.

I didn't have control on pricing,
turnaround times, quantity,

uh, quality, uh, was good.

But so I just didn't have
any control, any of that.

So the goal was like, how
do I get into embroidery?

Doing it ourselves.

I didn't have the space.

And I get a phone call early 2016,
mid 2016 from a girl and she's like,

Hey, I'm calling you about two things.

One, my boss has an embroidery business
and he's wanting to retire and sell.

Um, and two, I'm gonna be looking
for a job soon, wondering if

you'd have any work for me.

And it was a, a great
deal that fell into place.

The guy had the thema embroidered machines
that I was researching and looking into.

He hadn't started the process
of, um, large format sublimation

for like sport jerseys.

So kinda had that going a little bit
as a side thing he was trying to go

to, but just kinda was done it for 20
years more and was just ready to retire.

And that deal was really great.

So basically the money that I
bought the business for, there was

enough equipment and business there.

To pay for itself.

And I rented his building until he
got a bigger one a year later, and

it just really worked out great.

Another thing that came along the
way was in 2017, we had outsourced to

this other local print shop for years.

Um, and so they were great for
like the quicks things, the smaller

quantities, the odd quantities, uh,
just like unique projects that could

always send that eastex printing.

So, and we had talked about buying
that shop for a couple years

and it just never made sense.

We didn't have the space.

It, the overhead, having a second
location was a big thing to get overcome.

Well, when we bought this
big building room, now we had

plenty of space at that time.

Like we didn't know how
we were gonna fill it.

And when the owner came over and we
were just chatting, I was showing him

the new space little tour, he's like,
man, you gotta buy the print shop.

You could put it in this part
of the building and you know, so

he kinda opened my eyes to that.

I'm like, well, crap, you're right.

We could . And so we kinda
worked the deal in a few months

and we bought that business.

He came to work with us, the whole team.

We basically downsized it from
a 5,000 square foot building.

They were in to our 3,500
square foot area we had for it.

And it was great.

And so again, it just
fell into place again.

We were already outsourcing to 'em at
least a couple thousand dollars a month.

So I financed a little
business loan there.

Again, the customers that followed, we
were able to offer them more services.

Then.

It wasn't just about printing,
Hey, who's doing your t-shirts?

We'd love to do that, uh, websites.

And we were able to pick up other types of
jobs from those, those current customers.

So that was another deal that
really just worked in, was great.

A few years later, after
that was embroidery.

Um, no, I'm sorry, engraving.

We were outsourcing.

Engraving to a girl did a good job.

But again, we just
didn't have that control.

We were able to hire her and buy her
business and equipment, kind of bring

it under the same roof, and that helped
us again, go from just doing some

embroidery jobs every month to just,
we're constantly running at a machine.

So it's been really cool.

Little things like that that've
kind of fell in place and so like,

it's just changed my attitude to why
buy a existing business and their

problems and their old stuff to it.

It can work out really well just
depending on, I guess, the reputation, the

following and what, what you're getting.

So that's kind of helped us also, I think,
grow faster in some areas instead of just

getting things started and figured out.

We were able to kinda start out kinda a
little bit elevated up and so it's worked

here, we're figuring it out as we go.

Bryant Gillespie: here, we're, yeah,
you've built like a miniature empire, I

will say miniature, like you, you, I mean,
I'm proud of, they basically own the, it's

not, you own the town of Lufkin, Texas.

Chris Fleniken: No, sir.

If there's any Lufkin nights listening,
they're, they're laughing right now.

Like, what the crap are you talking about?

? But, but I am, I, I do wanna, like, I am
proud of the progress and it's because

of this great team members that's come
along, you know, like, I don't know

hardly anything about the prep shop, but
there's two great people over there that

know it in and out, you know, embroidery.

Like that's an area that
I can't run that machine.

I, I understand a lot of it, but there's
people over there that are passionate.

They love it.

They brag about, you know, how
smooth these stitches came out

and, you know, it's great to see
them being passionate about the

areas that they're really good at.

And that's allowed us to be.

To this point, as good as we've been.

So we're figuring it
out, but that, that's the

Bryant Gillespie: key.

Yeah.

So obviously the topic is, uh, and,
and you've seen this in some of the

mastermind calls and some of the,
the sign shop community for, for

owners that we've got, but a, a lot
of people are in similar positions

where they're not in a major market.

Like Pete Peter's probably gonna pitch
you a franchise after we get done

here because you need to d diversify
your business portfolio even further.

But , nevertheless, there's a,
a lot of shop owners that are in

the, in a similar situation where,
Hey, we're not in a major market.

There's I, you know, small-ish towns
I'll, I'll say, and there could be

local competition or competition from
out of town, but a lot of it there is

just like, how do I, how do I capture
more of the market or expand and, you

know, so how do I grow in a small town?

What, what would you say that your
competitive advantage is like?

Like why would customer, why are
customers working with you guys?

Because I, I feel like that's the,
like the, the crux of the issue for

Chris Fleniken: me.

Right.

No, I, I, I think really one thing
that got us off on the right foot

was just a strong creative team.

I think we can, we do
really well on the creative.

Um, I think constantly I'll hear
good comments as far as like, I

know there's plenty other places in
town that print t-shirts, but your

designers always just really knock it
outta the park with the creative part.

So I think having the
creativity right is good.

I mean, I.

First shop our size.

Way back when having one or two graphic
designers on the team was pretty rare

when I would talk to other shops.

And so, again, not that I was a genius
to plan it that way, it just happened.

But I think getting that design
right and standing out with a

great design was a big deal.

And that, that's helped us a lot.

I think another thing is
embracing the community.

I think we've just naturally done
a good job of just supporting

and being there in our community.

You know?

Yeah.

We got involved with the Chamber and
other resources that are in place, but

I think just jumping in like, like this
weekend is the lighting of Rudolph.

All right.

So I'm gonna tell you
something about Lufkin.

Lufkin, uh, part of our
industry in our area.

What?

Hold off the lighting of Rudolph.

Okay.

Lot of timber in our.

Hold on.

I'm gonna tell you this is
unique and crazy and I wish I

had something here to show you.

So another big industry is Lufkin
Industries here, an old, old hundred year

company and they make oil pumping units.

And many, many years ago, one of the
employees took one of their pumping units.

It's this weird shape structure and,
uh, basically made it look like a, a

reindeer, put a head on it, put lights
on it, and made it, and basically ru

Rudolph the oil field pumping unit.

And so it's a tradition in Lufkin of this.

Um, this is great.

This is every fantastic
a title for this episode.

It's, it's really fun.

It's really cool.

Um, and so like one thing, again,
embracing the community, we're

setting up a tent next to it.

We're giving away.

Check this Free kid tattoos, temporary
tattoos that say, have a Lufkin Christmas.

We are, uh, we, we designed a custom,
uh, coloring book and it's like,

I think again, the same title of
like The Great Lufkin Christmas or

some kind of cool title like that.

And it just talks about the things that
we have in our community, you know,

that we have an ice skating rink that's
opening up for the first time this year.

Um, so it's like, you know, we wrote
this little coloring book story.

Uh, we're gonna give 'em that.

And then we got these, um, crayon
boxes printed with our logo on it.

We're giving out crayon,
then coloring books.

Uh, so doing fun stuff like
that I think goes a long way.

You know, people wanna do business
with people they know, and so

when, when they can connect with
you is people in the community,

you know, it's not just a company.

I think it just, it,
it really helps a lot.

And I think also just again, having
those good people on our team, Has built

those relationships and connections
with people and it's gone really far.

So they're not coming into
a company, they're coming to

see Josh about another order.

They're coming in to talk about their
design with Zach because man, he, he did

that logo and it's just been so great.

Or he did that first vehicle wrap
design for him and, and you know,

so I think that's just been really
a big deal about rooting in and,

and embracing things like that.

Um, and we've done other little
things that's come along the way.

I remember a long time ago there was
a big deal, it was kinda silly, but

something about in God we trust stickers
run all the police vehicles in our area.

And there was some kind of conflict
about they didn't wanna use city money

to put that vinyl on the cars, you know?

So we heard about it and so we just
said, we'll put vinyl on the police

cars for you and we won't charge you.

It's no big deal.

We can donate that.

And so it was a big deal and we
made stickers and then people

were coming saying, Hey, can I
get a another one of those in God?

We trust stickers for my personal vehicle.

And we made them like crazy one
year and it was just, You know,

just kinda serving the community
and something relevant at the time.

And it was really cool for us
because we made a lot of connections

throughout that, uh, as well.

So I think just being open to what's
going on and jumping in where you can

and giving back is gonna go a long way.

Yeah.

Bryant Gillespie: I'm gonna,
I'm gonna hold this up.

I'm not sure if you guys can read it.

It says luck.

Like I, I heard you talking about all the,
the businesses that you bought, right.

And I, I don't, I don't remember where.

Heard this idea of like your luck surface
area, maybe on a podcast, maybe some

book that I read, but like, it's good
to think about luck as not like luck.

Like, hey, just, it's gonna happen.

Just like coincidence.

It's about like moving
and being out there.

And when you do that, when you
participate in your community, you're

increasing that luck surface area.

So if I've got more surface area
that we cover, oh hey, lightning

can strike here or there, here or
there, and like listening to you talk

about all these different businesses
that you bought and it's just like,

oh, it just happened to do this.

I feel like you're downplaying
it, obviously, honestly.

Like, hey, like, it's like, oh, this,
this happened and this hap this just,

I walked in at the perfect time.

You know?

And that's looking back at it.

Maybe it seems that way, but to
me, like listening to you talk,

like I, I'm seeing a pattern.

Not sure if you're seeing the same
kind of pattern, Pete, where it's like,

hey, we run into a challenge or like,
Hey, we, we outsource the product.

Things are going great for a while.

We kind of overwhelm that particular
outsourcer, or we need more control.

And then it's just like, okay, like, hey,
we're gonna bring that into the fold.

And that's, it seems like that's the,
the strategy that you guys have employed

Chris Fleniken: successfully.

Yeah.

Appreciate you saying that.

I mean, but I, you gotta put in the time,
you know, I mean, like, you could look and

say like, man, I wish my business would
fall in place, like real graphics did.

But like, dude, we've busted
it and we put in the time.

And so I think maybe that hard work
kinda aligns with opportunity and that's

where that intersection of luck comes in.

But we gotta hustle it and work
it, you know, to make it happen.

And it's not been easy, but
yeah, it's, it's worked out.

Free kid

Bryant Gillespie: tattoos.

I love it, man.

The, the, what is it?

Rudolph the light, the
Rudolph, the oil field.

Chris Fleniken: It's really
like Rudolph, the Pumping unit.

Um, pumping unit.

Okay.

Yeah.

But the pumping unit is like an
oil filled type product thing.

So, and the other thing I really
think really is training and getting

a really good team underneath you.

Cause I do feel for some of the
sign shop guys that it's, they're

still the core of it, you know?

And I know they're just wearing
thin, running hard and like if, if

they're sick or there's something
goes on, like there's so much that

doesn't get done because of that.

And that's a tough load to
carry and I think everyone

has to carry it for a season.

But I think quick as you can, you
know, is to train up the people

that can carry those loads.

And if they're out, there's
another person to help.

Is it a Boy Scout thing or an an
Army military thing of one is none.

Two is one or something like that.

You know, like that's kind of true.

Like if you've got one, one person
that can do that, and if they leave

or they're out, you're in trouble.

And that's one thing that we're constantly
facing and still facing now, is just what

happens when that one person leaves and
they knew this much stuff that no one

else knew, it could put you in a bind.

Uh, and it has, I'm not talking
like we have that figured out,

but those are some pain points.

So I just hope time shop owners can try
to start investing in their team and

building 'em up and getting the right
people in places because you need 'em.

You really do.

You're not gonna be able to
keep up with everything forever.

What was that

Bryant Gillespie: transition like for you?

Because, you know, now I know
you're still, you're, you're still

very involved in the business
and the community, but you're.

You know, like if, if you take
two or three days off, I, I'm

assuming things run just fine.

Like it's, it's, yeah.

Not the end of the world.

And I know that's, that's a different
case for a lot of sign shop owners

that are, are in small towns.

It's like, Hey, I, if I walk away
from the, the shop for two days,

like something bad's gonna happen or
we're gonna have to shut the doors.

Or you know, even if you're just
running into a situation like I'm in

this week, like, hey, if yeah, hey, my
wife and kids are at home sick and I've

gotta be there to take care of them.

Like, you know, are
things gonna run smoothly?

So maybe speak a little bit about
like, that transition for you.

Like what year was that?

Were you in the business?

Were you kind of like, Hey, I
gotta make this, and you know, what

were some of the pain points that
you had as you went through it?

Pl

Chris Fleniken: please don't think I
got this figured out, but I don't think

I've got, I'm kind of a control person,
but I don't think I'm terrible on.

Letting things go.

So like, I'm, I'm okay with
like releasing the reins and

saying, Hey, you focus on this.

So I think naturally that's kind of been
a part of my connection with the team.

It's just, you know, letting you
do your thing and then maybe I

might coach you along the way.

So I think gradually there's been a,
a fair bit of empowering and letting

other people do things that, you know,
I think maybe, oh, I could probably

do that better, but hey, I need
you to learn and grow in that area.

So that's kinda happened along
the, on the way, and I think

that again helped us a lot.

But man, it just, you do carry so
much as a, an owner or founder or,

or even the leader of a company.

And man, it kinda led to
some burnout for me in 2020.

Just started really struggling
with different things.

In a different way, you know, where it was
just, it was really wearing on me in 2021.

It, it was just kind of hit me at
some breaking points of just like,

man, I gotta make some changes.

Because there was a lot of those
things where that custom quote is

waiting on me, that special project
that I, I'm gonna have to figure

some out, you know, is waiting on me.

And it was just always that if I don't
get this done, it's not getting done.

And there was a lot that
would bottleneck at me.

And so I again just reached out to some
team members and like, man, I need some

help and I need y'all to kind of carry.

And my operations manager now
just really stepped up to help.

That was like the lifesaver of it because
then now I don't have the same feeling of.

That customer's waiting on me directly.

I still need to lead, I still need to
set, you know, goals and problem solve

and, and use my skills in, in those areas.

But it's not on the daily of
like, yes, if I was sick tomorrow,

everyone could run this place just
the same and we're gonna be fine.

And so I kind of did an analogy
talk with the team about, you know,

we built from just this little one
man boat, you know, where we could

scoot along and get things done.

And I was figuring it out as we went.

We were quick to navigate and
turn and pivot and do what we

needed to do to get them to grow.

And then we kind of got to be
a little bigger ship, needed

more team members involved.

And then I told 'em like, now
we're, we're more of a bigger

vessel that we need apartments, we
need someone in the engine room.

We need someone, you know, doing these
different areas and doing them well.

And I said, I've been here trying to
keep a hand on the steering wheel.

You know, keep, keep us, you know,
afloat is what we kinda, the term we

used a lot during that covid season.

And I was, I told him, I was like,
well, I'm tired of just keep it afloat.

Like if we're gonna be going
forward, we wanna be growing forward.

And so that's been our theme since then
this last year was we're growing forward.

I don't wanna be afloat anymore.

Bryant Gillespie: Maybe,
maybe that's the episode title

Chris Fleniken: right there.

Well, it's just been the truth of like,
where I was and like, I think a lot of

the team was just like, you know, I don't
wanna have the same struggles month after

month, and so let's make changes to, to,
to be growing for, I can't stop saying it.

And um, but anyway, I told my team is
like, I need to get my hand off the

steering wheel on the daily things
and move up to the, the lookout

tower and figure out where we're
going, how we're gonna get there.

You know, let's get a growth mentality
and let's put processes and things

in place that we need to be a, a
more of a firm solid foundation.

And, you know, appointed Melissa.

Like, Hey, she's gonna be having
her hands on the steering wheel

now and y'all support her.

And so as a team, we just evolved a.

September a year ago, uh, was
kinda where that started and it's

just been a new chapter for us.

We're not outta the woods.

We are still post covid struggles and
every month has got different challenges,

so it is not free sailing at all.

But as an owner, that's where
things really changed for me

because I was just, man, I was.

It was struggle, you know, it was tough.

Like putting your hand on the door
to walk into work was just like

something, I didn't realize what
it was, but it was anxiety of just

like, oh, I dunno what's about me?

I don't, you know, I had a great morning.

You know, I, what's so that's
point I, and thankfully things and

team was really load out and it's
been a different world for me now.

Alright, so let,

Peter Kourounis: let, let, let's kind
of take that and run with it here.

You know, we got a lot of listeners out
there that are going to love your story

and love how you got started, but now
that you're, you're seasoned, right?

You've been doing this a long time.

This is your, this is your
baby, this is your shop.

Still working on the time
aspect, like you said.

What can they take from this?

What, what processes?

I'm gonna put you on the spot here Chris.

Maybe something that Bryant here has
helped you with, so I don't know, but

what processes have you put in place
for your shop, for your shop size

that our listeners might be able to

Chris Fleniken: get benefit from?

Man, the last year has been a lot
of exploring what are the steps

we need to take to be more solid.

I'm not the best implementer, I'm
not the best at carrying things out.

Bryant has come along as a consultant,
but also as a doer and put some things

in place for us and things in shop box.

That's been really helpful.

Bringing up pain points and brainstorming
with him on like, okay, this is a problem.

We're getting wrong a lot.

What's gonna be a better flow for that?

But I will say a struggle just honestly
has been just the overwhelming wideness.

And again, I think of a lot of this
because this, the wideness of our shop

abilities, because it's like, I feel like
every department needs so much attention

and I have felt like my attention
and my energies have been spread by

like what problems the loudest today.

So I'll say as a failure
that I have not mastered yet.

Focusing in like, this
part needs to be better.

Let's get it and move on to this area.

Um, so I'm trying to do that.

Bryant has helped me, like we've jumped
in and tackled a lot of apparel products

in Shop box that were just wonky and kind
of, you know, and we focus like, hey,

let's get these five really main products
we use and let's get them really good so

my sales reps are smoother, production
will get better information and so on.

And so like that little improvement we
focus on for a month or two really has

made a good change of, uh, difference.

So I do envy someone that maybe is just
a sign shop or apparel shop that could

like laser focus and maybe get more
accomplished quicker because I constantly

feel like I get pulled to, okay, now paper
printing prices are a problem and paper's

outta stock and prices keep shooting up.

We've gotta recalculate that.

And so I need to shift my attention there
and help kinda dive in on that spot.

So that's not something I'm master,
that's something I'm trying to work on.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, it's almost
like the one stop shop approach is

kind of like a double edged sword.

It's, it's like, hey, it's great
for growth because, and, and we went

through this same thing in our shop.

Like we were in a small town.

We did printing, we did large format,
we did signs, we did screen printing,

we did embroidery, we did wraps.

You know, we did it all.

A lot of it we did under one roof.

A lot of it we would outsource.

You know, our mix was different.

It was probably like 60 40, 70 30,
you know, 70% in-house, 60% in-house.

But you know, when you have that
many products and that, I'll go

back to that word surface area.

When you've got all that surface
area to cover, it's a lot.

Especially in, you know, even, even
at 25 employees, that's, you know,

if you've got five, six different
departments, that's, you know, it's

still not a lot per department to run
essentially what's its own business unit.

And

Chris Fleniken: I will say like with
team wise, I mean the goal would

be to be real cross trained, so
that way if this person's out sick,

hey, we can pull this person from
this department to help fill in.

We haven't mastered that, but we, we try
to let people train in all departments

just to get an idea so that if they
needed to fill in it would be an option.

But again, every department is pretty
signage, probably has six or eight people.

Um, apparel has three or four.

A print shop has two to maybe two and
a half if there's someone else helping.

Um, and then sales reps, there's usually
about three to four primary sales reps

and then designers about five or six.

Uh, normal.

We got one web guy keeps
our digital stuff going.

So there's not a lot in every department.

It's not like a mass team.

So sign production stuff,
yard signs and banners.

There's mainly two people that
are keeping those things going.

So if one's out, there's another, but
if you need a third set of hands, we

got to rob from somewhere to help.

So that's kinda the flow of our
team and how that kinda looks.

But yeah, so I think getting those
things in place, uh, one thing if

I could do it different and if I
would've known that, hey, this is how

we're gonna look like in five or 10
years, I think laying a foundation

of those procedures and processes
and, and, and a training structure.

We would be a different company today.

You know, if we had the standard,
you know, cause right now if we

get a new person, our training
isn't, isn't very structured.

So they get trained this month differently
than someone got trained nine months ago.

You know, just because of the work
on on hand or what's going on.

And so that's tough.

So I think if I could do it again,
getting more firm things at place

on a, like a foundational level
would really help us a lot better.

And I,

Bryant Gillespie: but I feel
like that's always a, a tough one

though because it's like changes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It changes and it's, it's very

Chris Fleniken: fluid.

New machine, new process.

And, and that's one thing, I mean,
we do have a few things in place

of, of standard operatings that
are, have been pretty crucial.

But it is kind of funny sometimes it's
like, no, we don't save PDFs anymore.

We have to save an S for that
new program for this new printer.

Or the RIP software takes a, it's just,
there's always those tweaks along the way

that it's like you didn't get the memo.

We have that struggle often.

But yeah, trying to keep everybody on the
same page and trained in the same way.

Balancing act we're to work.

I think a lot of the problems we
make are from lack of training,

you know, from the sales rep
taking an order in a certain way.

You know, if they would've been
trained a little bit deeper to

understand our routing abilities or
to understand, you know, know that

PVC sign doesn't weather outside.

Well, they wouldn't have sold it that way.

We had a job the other day get
laminated Coroplast, and I'm like,

why are we laminating cor sign?

You know?

But like, well the customer, you know,
we were talking and, and I told 'em

the lamination, you know, protects
from scratches and that way their,

their, their yard sign doesn't get
lam, uh, scratched like, oh gosh.

You know, training, you know, is a key.

And then like, I was also talking
to the, the production team about

like, did y'all not question
why we're laminating yard signs?

You know what I mean?

Like, well, we just thought it was weird,
but we were just getting the order done.

It said it and said it on the order sheet.

Okay.

Anyway.

Yeah.

Fun stuff, man.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

So going back to like Pete's question
about like the process changes,

like, like what, like what's one
change that you guys, like, one

specific change that you've made?

Like I, I don't want to hear
the stuff that we've worked on

together because that's boring.

I mean, it's, it is cool, but
it's, you know, it's boring

for the context of this one.

Like what's, what's one big
change or a, a specific change.

It doesn't have to be a big change
that's made like a big impact for

you on the business or, you know,
as an owner that you guys have

done over the last year or two.

I'll

Chris Fleniken: tell you, I've
struggled with nailing that

question with a great answer.

But another thing that's another work
in is trying to create a little bit

of levels of leadership because for a
while it was me and then a lot of team

members, and then we kind of did have
a couple department leads, um, that

could kind of help take on some stuff.

So I think.

What they were working on.

That's still kind of working progress,
is trying to kind of put these good

leaders in place at different levels
so that way they're your go-to.

So when you know when a production team
member has a struggle with this, they

know, Hey, lemme go talk to this person.

Okay, we're still having a problem,
then let's go to this manager.

And again, usually that was me.

And now that would be Melissa.

And then Melissa, if there's still a
problem that they haven't overcome or

we need a special troubleshoot, hey,
I'm happy to get involved and help.

But that has helped a lot because my day.

Hijacked, you know, and I know a lot of
owners have to relate to, you had a plan

to something you were about to do for
the next two hours, and, and that's out

the window because you're, you're trying
to fix a printer or something else.

So to have more people, you know, not
under you, but just in, in, in line,

that can help, I think would go a long
way and protect the owner's attention

and, and focus a little bit better.

So we're trying to do that.

I think another thing goes to proper
delegation, you know, because like a

guy told me a really great acronym for
delegation, and I just, I've loved it.

I can't regurgitate it right now, but it
basically was like different levels of,

you know, there's gonna be someone that
comes to you, Hey, what do I do with this?

And you're gonna say, go and do this.

Exactly.

Then there's gonna be another one where
it's like, what do you think we should do?

Okay, that's a good one.

Why don't you try that.

Let me know how it goes.

Another level of.

Hey, I think you can figure it out.

Go and figure it out.

Try whatever you think's best
and let me know how it turns out.

And then there's that final
level of, go figure it out.

I trust you.

You got it.

Don't even tell me how it turns out cause
I know you're gonna take care of it.

Working down that path, you know?

And so I think it's easier just like,
oh, just let me fix it and get it done.

You're not letting that
person grow at all.

You're, you know, they're not gonna grow
the next time that problem comes up,

it's coming right back to you again.

So if you could start working with
that team member as far as with

those different levels and building
trust and confidence in them.

Cause I've had a lot of people say
like, oh, I didn't wanna make that

call cause I didn't wanna, you
know, make the wrong, wrong move.

Or I didn't wanna mess that up.

And I'm like, you know what?

I'd rather you mess that up and let's
figure something out so that way next

time you're that much more prepared.

So I think trying to con constantly
build up your team in that way

could be a big help going forward.

So that way I'm not with so
many service level things that.

You should have been able to
figure that out on your own.

I'm building them up in confidence and
they know that, you know, and then they

might report back, Hey, I did try this.

It didn't work, but I did this.

It worked.

You know, just letting you know.

And I love that.

Hey, thanks for keeping me in the loop.

Glad you figured it out.

Glad that printer's back going,
glad that customer's happy

with the fix or whatever it be.

I think that's good because I do
think just knowing a lot, some

other sign shop owners, they make
that final decision every day.

Everything has to go to them.

That's tough.

That's tough.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah.

I, I love that.

Four levels of delegation thing.

I've, I've not heard it phrased
like that, but yeah, it definitely

resonates with me a hundred percent.

Yeah.

Like, Hey, you've got, hey, like when
somebody starts out, There, you don't

give them a lot of leeway or mm-hmm.

you can't.

And there's some people that jump in
at like a different level of that.

You know, like, hey, your operations
manager's coming in at like, Hey,

you, you've already done something
similar in a different position.

Like, now you're gonna step in and I'm
gonna hand some of the reins off to you.

But, you know, I still have to make
sure we're effectively communicating

and a kind of high level strategy stuff.

So yeah, I, I definitely like that,

Chris Fleniken: that, well, here's
another thought too though that I think

I've been guilty of, and I, I try to
consciously not do it, is kinda like,

jump your ranks as far as me going to a, a
production team member and tell 'em to do

something one way when maybe someone else
had already said, you know what I mean?

Like, respect that.

Well, hey, what did
Melissa tell you to do?

Okay, then, you know, go back to that.

Let's go, well, hey, did you
already talk to Melissa about this?

Okay, go see what she thinks.

If y'all need help, come, lemme know.

You know?

And keeping that order in place is,
is very healthy because we've had

that happen where team member wants
to just jump straight to me and then

gotta kinda reiterate, well, cool.

Did you already troubleshoot that
with the, with the department lead?

Then y'all go talk about it.

I bet you could figure that out.

If not, let Melissa know.

I bet she could.

You know what I mean?

And just keeping that in check and
kind of training the team to, to

lean on one another I think would be.

I really think good thing to get, get
down in that process of delegation.

Cause I think it's too easy for a
sign shop owner or, or even a manager

to come in and just kinda override
something that, uh, you know, someone

else had already put in place and,
and that you lose authority there.

You know, they're, they're gonna
think, why do I even bother gonna

that person and Chris is gonna tell me
something different anyway, you know,

so try not to make those mistakes.

Like I said, I know I've done it
and I've tried to be cautious of

not overriding that some, something
that someone else has already.

It takes a

Bryant Gillespie: lot of self-awareness
to, to catch yourself doing that.

I, I mean, I, I'm guilty of it in the past
as well, like, hey, like, oh, I'm gonna

jump in and, oh, I'm gonna take this one.

Don't worry about it.

Chris Fleniken: I got it.

Yeah.

So I try not to, so, yeah.

Anyway, so any sign shop owners,
man, try to get outta that

daily stuff as quick as you can.

Not because you're, you wanna avoid
it, but just because then you can

focus on those bigger picture things,
you can make sure that we're firing

in on all cylinders and everybody's
supported and good because if I'm just.

Taking customer orders, we're
never gonna get really past that.

You know, this level, we're not gonna
grow where we potentially canned and

should and or you're gonna be like me.

And I think for million and years, I
just neglected a lot of the foundational

things I needed in place, you know, so
we probably could be a lot healthier

as a company than we are now, but a
lot of things we're kinda loosey goosey

and just winging it along the way.

Now another thing that Brian, you helped
get in place in 2019 was the connection to

the Sprint CFO guys, uh, Tyler and Brian.

Like, man, that was a game changer
for us because I had an accountant.

Yeah, my taxes were good and my books
were somewhat balanced, but these

guys came in and started dialing in
my margins and my departs and, you

know, where's my labor cost going?

Not just in general, but to each area.

And those types of things were
really, really big, big help.

Bryant Gillespie: Yeah, that's a big,
um, that's, that's one that I've, I've

talked to a lot of shop owners about
is like, you think that a, like your

typical CPA accountant, Like, they
just wanna do your taxes, honestly.

Like, Hey, I just want to make sure
you're compliant with the government.

And I did, you know, but, but, but
like the expectation from like the

business owner side, or even, and,
and I was guilty of this too, when

I started my own business, was my
accountant's gonna be involved and give

me advice on what I should do here?

Should I buy that equipment?

Or, you know, what, what are we
gonna project sales at for next year?

So, can I hire somebody?

And that's a really, like, that's
not the job of an accountant.

Chris Fleniken: No.

If you find that.

Wow.

Yeah.

Cause you're right.

I would've loved to have
that along the years.

Like that would've been great.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So definitely club

Bryant Gillespie: for those guys.

Chris Fleniken: We'll,
so those team members.

Yeah.

That Tyler's link in the, the shoes
man, that, that's been a game changer.

And they've been right about a lot.

Like, Hey Chris, you're gonna
run low on cash in next month.

And you know, it's like, Yep.

They were right.

You know, they, they,
they could see the trends.

They were helping me notice things,
and they had also identified problems

as far as just even in our bookkeeping
of this, margin's not right if

you're selling it for this and your
labor's, you know, and we found some

things outta place and fixed it.

And so it's been really cool
collaborating with those guys.

Awesome.

It, it seems

like

Bryant Gillespie: you don't have
any problem whatsoever, like, or

any ego in like, Hey, somebody
else is, can figure this out.

And like, letting that, giving
that person the space to do it.

Like you said, youve done that with
your team, your operations manager with

Tyler and the guys at print, c f o.

Like, was there, was there ever a time
where you were like maybe in the, at

the start of the business where you were
wound a little held on a little tighter?

Or is that just like a muscle
that you've developed like.

Chris Fleniken: Let's call that a muscle.

That's a good way to put it.

Cause yeah, I mean everyone has that.

I don't, don't even know if it's would
be ego-driven, but more just like control

nurturing, you know, like, Hey, I was
the only one doing this and if you're

not doing it that same way, you know, you
could start having problems or you know,

and someone could have a little ego as
far as like, that's not the way I showed

you to do it, but to be open to see like,
Hey, you know what, that does make sense.

Let's adapt and doing it that
way and taking others ideas.

I whatever you can do to empower other
team members, I think's the goal because

I can't be in all departments at once.

So if they have the idea, Chris
would do it like this and they

can evolve and make it better.

That's, that's awesome.

Another quote that I've heard my
pastor say and I love is like,

you produce what you reiterate.

You keep what you celebrate and
you deserve what you tolerate.

And that's been so.

So when we find a team member doing
something right, let's praise that.

Let's encourage that.

Let's celebrate that.

Hey, that is exactly how we wanna do it.

You know, let's produce what we reiterate.

Let's reiterate the important things.

Hey, because our customer matters.

We do not wanna let this go out.

Or because this might be a problem, let's
go ahead and run that by the customer.

Let's not surprise them with the
change or you know, whatever it be.

You can reiterate those things so
that way our team knows to make the

right decision in that right way.

And when it does not go right, whenever
it's like, what were they thinking?

Usually we could look at that
situation and say, you know what?

We kind of deserve it because
we've tolerated this for so long.

When that happens or that attitude
comes out, it's because we've

let it get sloppy, that area.

And so I've also kind of embraced
that little saying and, and, and

tried to use that to again, The team.

And I think another thing we could
kind of even mention is a big deal

is creating opportunity in your team,
because you're always gonna have just

staff members if they're just there
to do a task or a job, if there's

opportunities for them to dial in.

And I've heard you guys talk about this
on a recent podcast, and I think that's

really importantly, including your team
members in and the decisions, Hey, why

do you guys think this was a problem?

What can we do different
involving their opinions?

I think it's awesome and it
makes them feel value, but also

shows that they are valuable.

And from there, you're probably gonna get
some really good ideas to move forward.

So creating those opportunities.

And then also we try to create
opportunities in our pay scale.

So like our production team, we
put something in place a few years

ago to where they're paid, uh,
production bonus on as they work.

I didn't, I didn't

Bryant Gillespie: have this in my
notes, but I'm glad you brought it up

because I, I, I, it's not the norm.

I, I definitely wanna dive into

Chris Fleniken: it.

Well, it.

There was another company in town
that is amazing and we, we work

for them a lot, but also glean
really great ideas from them.

And one of the things that they put in
place was for their service technicians.

They were paid kind of almost as their
own little business owners of their

truck, you know, and hey, they created
opportunities for them to earn more.

And, you know, as they made more
efficient moves, they could,

you know, generate more income.

And we love that idea.

So we adapted it in a small way
of just, okay, hey, you're, you're

getting paid to show up and do your
quality job and give us your, you

know, your, your excellent work.

But on top of that, here's a
production bonus that comes every

month by the work you produce.

So if we have a call
back, we have a problem.

We gotta reprint that amount of
funds goes out of the budget.

Like you're not gonna bonus.

Shared order because we had this
problem or we missed a deadline,

quality was maybe a not to par.

We gave a discount, you know, so that
could get disqualified from that.

But if everything went great,
customer's happy, we hit the deadline.

We got 10 orders done this
week instead of eight.

You know, they're receiving a small
percentage of those jobs per team.

Um, it also kind of creates the
teamwork of like, hey, the screen print

department, they wanna crank out these
orders together because we've been,

we bo they bonus off the same amount.

Uh, sales reps, the order, the reason
they wanna crank those orders in and make

sure they're going through production
smoothly and correctly is because they get

a percentage on all the orders that they
put through shop box, things like that.

So, Again, we don't have it perfected, but
that is something we put in place with the

hopes that our team would have opportunity
to, you know, their paycheck could

reflect the hard work they're putting in.

And they would also feel a little
pain of like, man, we messed

up in that big shirt order.

I didn't make a bonus off that
because we had to reprint or we

had to fix or discount, whatever.

So that's something I hope to grow again.

What is we, we launched
it in January, 2020.

January, 2020 was one of our best months.

February was one of our
second best months in March.

Everything kind of came crumbling
and so we kept that in place.

This time, even though profits are
not what we near hoped, it's been

more of survival mode since, but we
kept it in there because that's just

important I think for the team to
have a feeling of kinda ownership

in their work and their ability.

And we, we try to preach to like, Hey,
you're not coming to do a job, you're

coming to bring value to the company.

Um, so don't just come to be here, but.

Engage, leave, empty leave knowing,
man, I, I gave some quality work today.

I poured into this project, or that
I brought my skills, my, you know, my

creativity or whatever their role is.

You know, like I want them to feel
proud of what they leave and proud

when they see that sign on the wall
or the truck driving down the road or

whatever it be, you know, like, and
so anyway, we wanna try to celebrate

those things with them and create the
opportunities that they can learn and

grow and like doing what they're doing.

So that's something we've tried to
do constantly, but, but also like,

back to the creating opportunities.

We've had several team
members move different places.

Like, we had one guy that
started as a helper right out.

He wasn't even outta college, he was
on academic probation from college,

from slacking around a little bit.

Came in as a, as a helper, you
know, really great hard worker.

Then he started working
on a production team.

Then he was our, kind of our lead
sign production guy for a year or two.

But he always wanted to
be a graphic designer.

Uh, that's what he was
starting to go to school for.

And so we made efforts to move
this valuable team member from

one role to a creative role.

Because that was kind of
where his passion was.

We had another guy that also was
in signage and was a super great

installer, super great operator
leader in that area, but he's super

creative and he did great video editing
for church and different things.

He had these skills and so we painfully,
you know, tried to navigate him away

from that and got him in a creative
role where he could, you know,

use his gifts and talents better.

So I think just wanting the best
for your people is another big thing

because we've made some painful moves
that I wish that person was still in

that role, but they thrive over there
and that's good, uh, for them as well.

I think that's important.

So moving people around I think has
been, and again, not everyone can, I

mean some people just, I need you there.

So stay there for a while, but when
we can, we try to like get them

opportunities to, to change it up and
do different things and I think that

helps keep them engaged and that way
it's not just a job, this is opportunity.

It's my career.

This is, you know, I'm
a valuable team member.

I'm needed here.

And hopefully they could
be and do the best.

I

Bryant Gillespie: love that approach
that you mentioned career, right?

Like a lot of a, like not the owner or
manager, but like a lot of the production

employees are probably, are, are calling
this a, a job in other shops and you're

trying to instill that, hey, there's
something bigger than we're working on

here and this is a, a career for you guys.

So Pete, I'm gonna open the floor
for you, dude, because I know you

got like a couple, I know you've been
sitting on like a pointed question

or two before we wrap this thing up.

Yeah,

Peter Kourounis: well, I mean, we, I was
really enjoying everything that Chris was

saying, so I wanted to let him kind of,
as I like to say, ramble on a little bit

But thanks you, you covered
a lot of really great topics.

I think the, the, the biggest question
for me is, is not going to be something

that I think is gonna be hard for you to
answer, but like, what do you see yours?

How, how do you see yourself?

In terms of time, like if you had time
where, where is your time best used in

your life and your businesses right now?

Chris Fleniken: I learned from a,
there was a little seminar as that

and they, they, it's kinda like
personality profiles, but they were

talking about different, know your area
of strengths and, and running that.

And part of that was this visionary
and I, they called it something else.

It was like a visionary profile and
then there was like a manager operator,

someone who implements things.

And then there were a couple
others and I totally identified

with that visionary one.

And again, I'm, sometimes that term seems
a little cocky, but I am a good idea guy.

So when you got a problem in a shop, I
mean in my, in our little area, I love

coming out with the problem solve of that.

You know, Hey, you know what, this is it.

You've already tried this,
you've already tried that.

I do love kind of tackling some
of those special things like that.

And I think I'm can bring value to
the company in that type of area.

I think setting big goals, Is a big
part of it, you know, like if we can,

I mean, like, we're gonna say doing
what we're doing unless someone cast

out this new idea, Hey, what, what if
we in five years had this going on?

Or a different location or whatever.

So I hope that I can find my time
wisely to navigate us towards

bigger things and new ideas because
that will keep the team general

generally more excited and engaged.

Because yeah, I mean like everyone's gonna
kinda get dull by doing the same routine.

Yeah.

Ok.

So,

Peter Kourounis: so, so
you're more of a visionary.

You wanna explore those opportunities,
kind of solidify those cracks before

they become deterrent in the future.

Right.

Take risks.

And the only reason why you could do that
and the obvi, it's an obvious statement,

but the only reason you could do that
is because you're not in your business.

You're working on your business.

You are the leader, the coach,
the consultant, the trainer.

Those are areas where I'm hearing,
and you may not be saying them,

Based off of what you've said, I'm
making really great assumptions that

this is where your expertise lies.

As a shop owner, your responsibility
is not designing or quoting or selling

or even installing or fabricating.

It's more training, guiding consulting,
looking for those areas of weakness and

then shoring up those inefficiencies.

You know, I'm speaking to a, I was
speaking to a specific sign shop

on new sign shop owner earlier.

This.

Who is quite the opposite of you, Chris?

I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna mention
his name or, or his shop, but he

just bought this business from a,
from an experienced sign shop owner

who is very involved in the system.

Very involved.

In fact, everything was up here.

He had told me that all of his pricing
was listed on laminated sheets.

And I'm like, oh dude.

Like we need to fix this problem.

You know, let me ex, let me introduce
you to like a shop management tool.

And you know, you have
side shop owners out there.

Chris let, like, let's not forget
that we all started this way.

This gentleman is just coming in and
learning everything about this industry.

He doesn't know how to make signs,
he doesn't know how to design signs.

And when I'm talking to him and I'm
working through all of those, uh, building

blocks, One of the things that always
comes back in our conversations is

that you have to build the foundation.

You have, this is what you're
going to build the engine.

You're, you're gonna build your engine
no matter who you sell this to or who

gets hired, or hey, if you want to
go on a two week vacation, no matter

what happens, the engine is always
capable of running and that is what

people are now building their shops on.

So that's what I like when I'm listening
to you, is that you've built this engine,

you've, you didn't start this way, right?

Mm-hmm.

, you, you, you, you said it yourself.

You know, you made that first poster
for $25 because you said, Hey, yeah,

sure I can use an extra couple of bucks.

For me hearing your story, learning
a little bit more about how you

kind of grew into this, making it.

Making it exciting, but most importantly,
building the foundation, building

your, you've built your engine.

In fact, one might say that your
engine is built and Bryant is helping

you supercharge that engine, right?

Like you're adding all sorts of tweaks
to it because you continue to be

involved in the business enough where
you can explore those inefficiencies

to make that engine better.

So when I asked you earlier about
like what processes you have, like

that's all part of the engine.

That's all part of it.

You know, one might say,
you built the system.

What does an engine need?

It needs gasoline to run.

So that, in my mind,
that's marketing, right?

So what does a shop do of your size,
marketing wise to attract its customers?

That's a question I'd like,
uh, that I wanted to ask.

I kind of took the long way to ask it, but

Chris Fleniken: no, thanks for the recap.

I mean, you really did say that, right?

And.

You're right.

Peter Kourounis: But yeah, you know,
you need, every engine needs gasoline,

every engine needs gas to run, right?

So we look at that in marketing
dollars and marketing ideas.

So what, uh, for a shop your size,
what are you doing to attract new

Chris Fleniken: business?

So mine's gonna be having a
solid pance presence online.

A lot of those foundational
things are in place, right?

But we're not super aggressive there
because luckily for so far all the

business that we've grown from has come in
the front door, called us or emailed it.

So we haven't really gone out
and asked for a lot of work.

So that's what energizes me to think
what are the possibilities out there?

If we went out to actually ask for more
work, we actually like pursue some leads.

We followed up with existing and older
customers and asked them, Hey, we'd

love to have your shirt business.

And we're not doing any of that right now.

So I think for the future of us
to have an outside sales con.

Point person would be a
pretty cool, powerful team

member that had in the future.

But for now we are just managing the
stuff coming in, which again, I don't

want it to sound in the wrong way cause
we're super grateful, but like what a

blessing to have plenty of work coming in
that we've continued to grow every year.

I haven't fueled a lot of gasoline
on the fire for that, but we've got,

we have stayed consistent there.

Yes, I'm gonna have
some Google ads running.

We've ran a billboard just for
fun before we have our wrap

vehicles that are out there.

And that constantly
brings us great attention.

I mean, I was, I was pumping gas the
other day and I got in one of our, I

was in one of our work vehicles and
it just, The guy just starts chatting

to me about his business and all this,
and I'm just thinking like, what other

opportunity would come this way if you
did not have that wrap vehicle there?

That he's not only talking about
wanting to wrap his construction

company truck, but y'all print business.

I mean, it's just brings
so much opportunity.

So our wrap vehicles have been a great
help to stay in the area and relevant.

I love it.

Whenever I get comments I'm
like, man, I saw you guys' truck

way out in Jasper yesterday.

What are y'all doing out there?

And so it's been good seeing
those on the street and, and,

and know kinda keeping people.

Thinking of us, uh, to, to that, to that

Peter Kourounis: point, to that
point, I always talk to my, I always

talk to my, uh, my consultant, my
clients that I consult with, my sign

shop owners that I consult with,
and I always bring up that story.

We actually talk, uh, it was ama
uh, I'm not sure if the episode

is out yet, but that episode that
we did about raps with, um, Bryan,

Dana Antonelli, yeah, thank you.

I couldn't recall his name.

Dana Antonelli.

When we release, I was, I was like,
oh man, this is gonna be my jam right

here, because I can't wait to think.

I was just thinking about this story.

I had a little shop, right?

I just got started my first
year, and my father, he says,

Pete, you need a billboard.

He says, here's a $900
van I found on Craigslist.

You should just wrap it.

Just wrap it and park it on the side of
your building and watch what would happen.

I'll never forget that.

This is like before
wraps became like a, a.

You know, like almost every

Chris Fleniken: shot cut
vinyl layered up or no?

Was it?

No, no.

Peter Kourounis: It was a real wrap.

It was a real wrap.

It was a real rap.

But before RAPS were like they were today.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Like almost every shot does raps now.

I still remember the very first rap I've
ever done, which was like, I remember

jumping up for joy, like got a rap.

Yeah.

You know, somebody gave
me $5,000 to do a wrap.

You know, I still remember that to
like, it was like it was yesterday.

But the importance for those
shops out there that are

not looking at it like this.

That's a really simple way of
just branding yourself, right?

Keep a truck parked right outside, maybe
park it on the side of a, a building an

intersection, a an empty or a deserted
parking lot and just keep it there.

Park it there, get your name out there.

It's a really simple way of attracting,
I wouldn't even say new business, it's

just a way of getting the brand out there.

Brand awareness, right?

Like keeping your brand consistent.

They drove past it on Main Street.

Now they're driving down Douglasville
Road or whatever you want to call your

road on, and now they see your shop.

That's two touch points, right?

So doing something just like that, it's
a really great tip for the small sign

shop owner, the small guys that are
out there that are like doing 250 to

$500,000 a year in sale that are looking
for like added ways of, of really trying

to get, you know, the brand out there.

Maybe they don't wanna
spend $500 a month on.

I don't know a billboard
advertising Google.

No, I get it.

Chris Fleniken: You know,
but if you spent, uh, if

Peter Kourounis: you spent $900 and
did it yourself and wrapped your own

vehicle, that's gonna last a lifetime.

That's gonna, well, maybe not a lifetime,
but you know, it's gonna last a lot

longer than a, than a monthly ad and
a magazine or, you know, a diner ad,

a billboard for a couple of weeks.

I mean, even Bryant knows you
can advertise in like magazines

and maybe the impressions

Chris Fleniken: are not great.

Peter Kourounis: Yeah.

You know, maybe there's some digital
mar magazines out there that want

your advertising, but they suck.

You know?

So where, where is your money best?

You, best being spent?

You know, I mean, for, for us,
season sign Shop guys, we've

advertised everywhere, right?

We've, we've done the diner
mats, we've done the sponsorship

of the little leagues.

Yeah.

We've done the sponsorships on
the Light Up Your Rudolph event.

Okay, we're do, we're
handing out little things.

I remember, I still remember one of
my first trade shows, I routed out

over 500 corrugated plastic guitars
to hand out, you know, like just to

people like, gimme, gimme, gimme.

Yeah, that's awesome guitars.

But it was just a cutout piece of coro.

It was, it was cool looking, but
people would recognize you and I

can't, and I sold franchises that way.

So there's so many things that
a sign shop owner can do to

pour gasoline into their engine.

But Chris, I'm bringing
this right back to you.

And my last question here and, and please,
I'm gonna caution you if you could be

Chris Fleniken: specific.

Peter Kourounis: For those listeners,
I mean, I'm gonna ask you a pretty

simple question, but be specific.

Give them a tip, help them out here.

Let's be, let's be really great sign
shop owners here and, and pass along some

really great advice for that Next sign.

Shop owner.

You got a great system
built of processes, right?

You mentioned you use shop box, you
have, you do some marketing, right?

Here's the question.

When a lead comes in, okay?

When a lead comes in of any kind, no.

Doesn't matter.

How, tell our listeners
what happens in your shop?

Who answers

Chris Fleniken: the lead?

How does it get processed?

How quickly

Peter Kourounis: do you
turn into an estimate?

Walk us through the front end of
your process so our listeners can

learn a little bit of something,
how to do it in correctly

Chris Fleniken: in their shop.

Well, figuring things out.

But right now, yeah, if you, if if a
website order comes in, we've try to

be there and, you know, order come in
through Facebook or any kind of online

deal, it funnels through a couple
email accounts we have ready, so that

way we know kind of how it came in.

So yes, front desk will receive it,
share it with a, a sales rep, just kinda

depending on who would be best fit.

Uh, then they'll reach
back out, make connection.

Hey, how can we prepare a quote?

What are these details?

Uh, we also have five, and I
don't mind sharing this, but I

have five top questions that our
sales reps kind of run through.

Um, it's basically, and I've heard y'all
kind of mention some of this stuff.

It's like talking about budget, talking
about timeframe, talking about scope of

work, you know, expectations, how, you
know, how long we want this to last.

Gathering those top five things would
let them give the best educated quote.

Generally, we're gonna give them a
good, better, best, or at least a.

Good and better option.

Um, so sometimes they might ask for a
cor plus sign, but by the time we kind of

retrieve the goal of it, what's it for?

It might evolve to something different.

And so hopefully we give that customer,
Hey, this is what you asked for.

Maybe here's even a better option if
you want it to last a little longer.

Or, Hey, yes, our, our basic
t-shirts start at six bucks a piece.

But if you are wanting one of those
fashion tees that are tribal in that

people really don't wanna take off,
here's an option that costs this much.

Um, so hopefully we provide those
options in pricing, pass it.

Then from there we get the order, go
through the deposit step, assign it to a

design team member to provide the mockups.

Um, and then from there approval, it
gets assigned at dip production due

date and passed into the production
stage state to go down that flow.

So that's kind of the flow.

So hopefully we're fielding that.

Again, I don't think we have it perfect,
but man, to lose a lead is so bad.

I mean, that one person's gonna be
disappointed and they're gonna tell

way more people than that happy
customer that was taken care of.

So it's very important to make
sure we're receiving it because

if not, we're wasting all that.

We, we, we wrap that vehicle, we,
we sponsor that little league ad

and all this stuff to get this,
this opportunity and we missed it.

And so I just feel like if we had to
be good stewards of those opportunities

and do it well, and that's kinda why we
haven't really ventured out to ask for

more work is cause we're still trying
to make sure we polish and take care

of these customers that are coming in.

We also run a 25% repeat
customer rate, which is great.

I'd love to see that grow in that.

I'd love to just nurture those
accounts better, nurture those

customers, reach back out.

Hey, how was your experience?

I think there's opportunities that we have
to do that better that I'd love to see us

grow in, but we've gotta receive that well
because one of the worst things we get is.

People say about other
places, well, I reached out.

I never got a quote.

Or they did, they showed up and
surveyed, but they never came

back and gave me some options or
didn't call me back or whatever.

And that's something I don't
want people to say about us.

So we've gotta do everything we can to.

Be one of those that they're
telling the shop down the road,

Those guys never got back
with me and that's terrible.

So we're doing our best, but we've been
blessed with a lot of work coming in.

So yes, I wanna do a good job of
fielding it and taking care of them.

Awesome

Peter Kourounis: man.

Thank you so much for that.

Chris Fleniken: Appreciate it.

Hey, another thing that I've got going
on today is a tour, and I don't know how

many other shop sign shop owners open
their shops up, but we do several tours

a year for like schools to leadership.

Lufkin is like a leadership program in
our local, uh, chamber that comes through.

There's also a high school program of
these kids that are in the leadership

program that come and so we have a
talk, we we tour around the shop,

they screen for their own t-shirt.

Sometimes we'll make a vinyl sticker
or something, but like we just open

the doors and let them kind of see.

And it always is such a
positive, you know, takeaway.

Yeah, I, I wish

Peter Kourounis: more and more people,
I wish more and more people did that.

I think that's an excellent thing.

I would encourage you to even look beyond.

What you're currently doing, just from a
recruitment perspective, you know, like

kids in school, they remember meeting,
you know, the governor, the mayor, , you

know, they, that that's what inspires
people in the next generation to be

in politics or, or, or in education.

When they, when they, you said it
yourself at a young age, you learn

from a, a, you know, a youth pastor.

Yeah.

And that's how, that's why you knew that
that was something that you wanted to do.

So I love that.

I, I personally, I wish I did that.

I, I had, I had not really thought of
the idea, but opened houses, Sign, uh,

like a sign shop, open house, getting
people to touch things, play with things.

It's such a creative industry.

You could do almost
anything that you want.

You can have them build little ra
glow in the dark reindeer if you

want, you know, around this time,
around this time of the year.

I mean, it'd be so cool.

I encourage you to really explore that.

Even come back to us with
like, Hey, how is this doing?

Film it.

Throw it up on social media.

Get it out there in pr.

Like I personally love that, love that
I would tell every sign shop to do.

Chris Fleniken: And here.

Another thing though, the flip side of it
is, yeah, it brings a burden to the team.

They gotta make sure their areas
are clean and things like that.

And I ask 'em all to have something
running in all the departments so

that way we're cutting something
on the table, we're flatbed.

Yeah, you

Peter Kourounis: gotta prep it.

You gotta prep it, right?

You gotta make sure

Chris Fleniken: dec you point at
them and you say, Hey, this is the

operator who runs this machine.

Tell us about what it does.

Or here, here's the screen printer, tell
us how we're gonna screen print our shirt

today and let them shine for a minute.

And that's a cool thing that they
get to like show off, Hey, this is

my skill, this is how I know to do,

Peter Kourounis: let them use the
power washer and clean a screen

and you know, let, let them
throw, like start folding shirts.

I agree.

I agree.

I would absolutely do it
in any shop of any kind.

Show how you do things.

Show how you make the magic happen.

You know, even in a small shop,
and we're a small town like yours,

or a large community like mine,
that is needed in this business.

The youth in the industry needs to
know what they can do in this career.

They could be designers, they could be
foreman, they could be installers, they

could work with their hands, they could
be, you know, they could be bookkeepers.

They could do anything
that they want in industry.

That is why I love it so much, because
you could wear many different hats.

You could be a business background, a
marketing background, a design background.

You could be a contractor,
you could be a manager.

You could do anything you want,
and the kids, the youth of

this generation need to know.

So I would, Chris, anybody who's
listening out there needs to take

your advice and get that done.

Start put bringing in your Chamber
of Commerces, your networking

groups, bring it all in.

And I'm not even talking about
business owners, like just.

You could do it with anybody.

An open house.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know, it doesn't have to
be kids, it could be anyone.

So yeah, man.

Way to end it on a positive note.

I love that.

I encourage others to do that.

Thank you so much for being here,
Chris, it was great to hear your story.

I love having you on, uh, look forward to
seeing you again on our Mastermind calls.

Uh, and, and Brian, why don't
you wrap it up here and, and

then, you know, close us out.

Guys.

Chris Fleniken: Thanks
for letting me ramble.

I've enjoyed it.

Bryant Gillespie: Oh, man, I, I knew this
was gonna be a slam dunk conversation,

so I appreciate you joining us, man.

Chris Fleniken: Oh, wait,
Brian, new like that.

Chris guy can talk.

He'll fill an hour.

Easy man.

Hey, hey.

Bryant Gillespie: Honestly, like
you've been, um, a, a great inspiration

to me as well and a good friend,
and like hearing you like Flex and,

and like, not even Flex, but just
share some of your experiences.

Like, I, I knew you had all this in you.

I, this is gonna be tremendously
helpful for all of our listeners.

I, I know it will be because like you've
been through this over, over 15 years or

so that you've been running this business.

I mean, and it's, you know, the takeaway
for me is like when you truly enjoy what

you're doing and you value what service
you're providing is a, a sign shop or a

print shop or a wrap shop to your local
community like that pays dividends.

So if you're in a, a small town and
you're looking to grow, And you're

asking, how can I grow in a small town?

You're asking the wrong question.

Right?

The question is, how can
I help my small town grow?

Yeah.

How can I help the other business
owners in my small town grow their

businesses and be more successful?

Because to me, to like distill down
everything that you've said, like

that's the takeaway here is basically
you guys came in with creative on the

front end and outdid anything that
they were getting from other sign

or print shops that were just there
to provide a sign or provide print.

Like you guys are actually investing in
that small business that's coming to you.

Like, Hey, we we're gonna make
sure your design looks great.

We're gonna make sure that we
help you put the pieces together.

Like, Hey, you may come to us for a
banner because you're trying to open

a, a new location, but guess what?

We've got flyers that we can do for you.

Mm-hmm.

, like, we're going to give
you the whole package.

So that's the takeaway for me.

How do you grow in a, a
small shop or a small town?

How can you grow your small town?

How can you help other business
owners in your small town?

Chris, that's awesome, Chris.

Um, if you guys want to check out Chris
and Real graphics, it's real graphics.com.

I, I don't want to flood
you with calls, but I know.

No,

Chris Fleniken: I enjoyed it.

Yeah, it's been a great meeting
part of the community and connecting

with more and more owners.

It's been really
encouraging, so it's awesome.

And there's this Me Too therapy
that's been really helpful, you

know, to hear other people talk
about things and be like, ah, me too.

I'm not alone, you know?

So I've enjoyed, uh, the
connection with you guys.

So thanks so much and keep doing
what you're doing all's good.

All right, thanks Chris.

Bryant Gillespie: Bye guys.

Appreciate it.

Guys.

If you

Chris Fleniken: liked this episode,
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