Better Sign Shop Podcast

Learn how to build a better
sign and print shop from a few

crusty sign guys who've made more
mistakes than they care to admit.

Conversations and advice on
pricing, sales, marketing,

workflow, growth, and more.

You are listening to The Better Sign
Shop podcast with your hosts, Peter

Unis, Michael Riley and Bryant Gillespie.

We jump into the episode.

I'd like to give a shout out to
our sponsor, G C I Digital Imaging

Grand Format Printer to the Trade.

We talk a lot about outsourcing on the
podcast and the importance of having a.

Good partners and G C I Digital
Imaging is a good partner to have.

Owner TJ Beak and his team focus on
providing killer customer service just

the way grandmother used to make it.

If you're interested in learning
their approach to business, hop

back into the archives to episode
nine where the guys and I interview

TJ about customer experience.

So if you're looking for a high quality
trade printer for banners, wraps,

and other printed graphics that your
customers throw at you, check out

GCI Digital [email protected].

Alright guys, welcome back to the next
edition of the Better Sign Shop podcast.

Apparently we need an IT guy, so
if you're out there, you are it.

You know how to rework audio and.

Technological equipment,
please hit us up because we are

struggling to get it together here.

But as always, I am joined by my
friends and co-hosts, Peter, the

sign Shop, Yoda Uni's up y'all.

How are you, Pete And hey Peter, Mr.

Magic Mike, the Corll King.

All right.

Is that what we're settling on?

Is that, is that cool for you?

Are you good with that?

It's, it's,

it's better than the sign, Jimmy Chaga.

So, yeah, I'm cool with it.

We're gonna roll with
the Corll King Magic.

I, I agree.

I agree.

It's it better than the sign Chimichanga.

If it was my nickname, I would want
it to be Magic Mike, the Corre King.

It's a pretty badass nickname.

Really?

I mean, like, I feel
like some street cred.

Was it right?

Like, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm gonna get you one of
those standup like poles.

That you would like a tension mount
between the, the floor and the ceiling.

Maybe we would get you on one of
those fail videos where you spin

around and just fall and like take
out your whole bookcase or something.

Uh,

you know, if you send me
a stripper pole, I will.

I'll

be on it.

Let's do it.

Oh, goodness.

Oh, I, it feels like it's been a couple
weeks since we've all been together.

Uh, we don't have a ton of time
to catch up here because we've

experienced technical difficulties,
but anything important you guys

wanted to share before we jump
right into our guest for this week,

who is our guest this week?

I'm glad you asked.

Our guest this week is Brad Rapon.

He is the owner of Trade Wraps.

It's a wrap shop in Virginia.

And, uh, for whatever reason, he is
also decided to build his own CRM system

and sell it to sign and wrap shops.

So curious to grill him about
that a little bit as well.

I think it'll be a very
interesting conversation.

Sounds

fascinating.

I I'm looking, I'm looking forward to it.

I'm looking to, I I love a guy that's,
that has new tech or a new, or a new

SAS program that's, that's
clearly exactly what we need.

Is more tech here.

More tech.

We can't even figure out three
microphones and a headset.

Why,

why are we interviewing
somebody about tech when we

can't figure out our own tech?

It's a, it's a, a great question.

Uh, okay, let's, let's solve like, why do

I only hear you in my left ear?

Can we

solve that first

before we get into wrap software?

Can we get into like, why
I can't hear you right.

Basic

audio

settings on your computer.

I mean, seriously, we
need to be better at this.

We stop at this.

It's cuz Mike is on Windows.

That's, that's all it is.

Oh,

well, I, I, I kind of went over
to the dark side two years ago

and I never looked back a hundred
percent Windows a hundred percent.

I was a PC user my entire life.

And then when Corll Draw decided
to introduce the Mac version,

I was like, I'm jumping shit.

I'm

out.

That was the only thing holding
me to a PC was Carell Draw.

Just, I just never needed to ever

use a Mac.

And then they introduced Carell for
Mac and was like, That's, see, I, Mike,

I'm out.

Mike hates the Corri Mac version though.

He said it wasn't as good.

Yeah,

I I do too.

It's not nearly as good as the PC
version, but it get you, you can get

by, you can get by if the PC version's

far better.

Yeah.

I, I tried to make the switch to a Mac a
couple years ago and for the same thing,

like, cool on a PCs available or for
Mac is available now I'm gonna switch.

And it was like the biggest
nightmare of my life.

I think I'm the first person in Best Buy's
history to ever like, return a MacBook

Pro.

They

looked at me like, we know how to do this.

Yeah.

Sorry, I'm getting, man.

You know

when there was this one time, there
was this one time you mentioned

Best Buy, so I used to work for
Best Buy like way back in the day.

I was using Corell Draw and I
was selling, I was in the PC

department and I was selling, uh,
computers, like compact computers.

That's how long ago this was?

Oh, yeah.

Nice.

Oh, I was selling compact computers.

Right.

And you know, like there was
like the Mac and the app, and

I was like, when is Carell Draw
ever gonna come out for the Mac?

And it was like, never, never.

This will never happen.

I mean, it was like,

there's this guy, uh, what's his face?

Uh, Joe Diaz from Diaz, Shar.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

He

was

a, he's like a big, uh, he was like

a big mentor to me in,
in the design world.

And he tells me, I, I saw him
in Atlantic City one day and he

is like, it'll never be on Mac.

Don't ever have to worry about it.

It'll be a,

it's a native PC app.

And I'm like, all right, well,

so I'm telling, I'm telling myself
that maybe I should just buy a Mac

and like remote desktop into my pc and
then I get the best of both worlds.

Or, and then somebody introduced me
to Parallels and I'm like, I could

run Windows n Mac on a MacBook,
uh, um, windows N you know what?

Whatever the name of the
operat system was on a Mac.

And I'm like, that's

awesome.

That's my

winning ticket.

That though, led to me
saying, let me try it.

Let me make this $2,000 investment.

And I ended up returning a
Mac PC myself a week later.

Or a Mac, excuse me.

A Mac.

A Mac computer.

Uh, at that time it was the, uh,
the, I don't know, it looked like

almost like a little pancake.

It was like a piece.

Mm-hmm.

It was like, I forget what it was called.

MacBook or something like that.

I can't remember exactly what
it was called, but I returned

it.

So, there you have it.

You, and you are not the
only one to ever return a

Mac to, to Best Buy for

Corll.

Draw

reasons.

I feel a little better than that.

Corll wasn't the only reason, but

it was my only reason.

Oh, I

hated it was, it was just awful.

All right, let's, uh, off the soapbox,
that was cool that you worked at Best Buy.

I had a buddy that worked at Best Buy.

We got this suite discount
on like the TVs and stuff.

And

do you man, I worked at
Radio Shack Circuit City

and Best Buy.

That's the, that's the back.

And we still can't, we still
can't figure out the headsets.

Right.

All right.

Let's bring on the guest know.

We're back with our guest, Brad
Rapon, the owner of Trade Wraps

and Torque c rm, the hottest news
CRM for the sign and Wrap market.

Brad, happy to have you on, man.

Thanks for joining us.

Well, thank you for having me, gentlemen.

I'm happy to be here.

Yeah.

So for everybody listening out there
who may not be familiar, why don't

you give us some of your backstory?

So

some backstory on me, you know,
obviously my name's Brad Rapon.

Uh, I've been in the sign business
before, uh, I've had a sign shop, failed

miserably, started trade wraps, so
that's where I am right at the moment.

So we have a, you know, 13
year vehicle wrap company doing

commercial wraps and thriving there.

Looking to expand even
more through that venture.

You know, obviously I have created a
software called Torque crm, and now we're

promoting out to the sign and wrap world.

Okay, so let's start at,
let's start at the very

beginning there.

There's a lot to unpack.

Okay.

Uh, with, with, with being
as transparent as you

can, tell us about your first experience
in the sign business and why you got into

the business and what led to, you said
it failed, so what led to those failures?

What were the failures
and what led to them?

So, you know, like, like anybody who's
probably been in the signed world or,

you know, 90% of us actually come from.

A trade, right?

So we all like worked in the sign
business and then started a sign shop.

There's a small percentage out there
that just go in and buy a sign shop.

But I was one of those people that,
um, I'm a designer by trade, so like

my first design job was designing
tombstones, uh, which I absolutely loved.

And they were using Omega composer and
a plotter to uh, do the tombstones, do

the sand blasting for the tombstones.

Mm-hmm.

And I wanted to, I guess, show people
more of my portfolio to be more commercial

rather than be like, Hey, let's go down to
the cemetery and check out my portfolio.

You know, that's always a good one.

Right.

It's

a tough sell to

be honest.

Like Yeah.

Right.

So I jumped into the sign world
because the sign world at the

time was using, you know, a mug,
composer or something similar to it.

And, uh, plotters, which
I was familiar with.

So I wanted to do more commercial
design work, so I got into a couple

sign shops, bounced around a little bit.

I learned lots.

Uh, ended up managing a couple sign shops
and then just felt like I peaked and I

always wanted more and very ambitious.

So I started my own sign shop.

And the problem with that is, is that
we all start a business because we're

good at doing the art of it, right?

Doing the work.

But what I was terrible at and
what I didn't know that I know

now is I was terrible at business.

I was terrible at everything else
besides like actually, uh, doing the

signs and managing a small sign shop,
which I wa at the time, even saying

managing a sign shop, looking back at
that, I even wasn't even a good leader.

Like I wasn't a good manager.

I wasn't a good leader.

So ultimately

that's what, what was the
name of your first side shop?

Oh

God, it heard to even say it
honestly, it was called impact signs.

So it was terrible.

Impact signs,

signs that

make a impact.

So something like that.

Creating solutions that

hit hard.

Honestly, I, I've heard worse.

At least it wasn't.

No, I've heard, I've heard Brad signs.

It's like, honestly, that's
what I was expecting.

I was expecting like
baldhead signs or Brad signs.

Signs and tombstones.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, there was plenty of those around here.

There was like a lot of people with names
and then signs and I didn't want that.

So I tried to make like an
actual, like company, but I

didn't know anything about it.

So all I was terrible at it.

And I failed.

I did it for two years, struggled
massively, and like I failed miserably.

And, um, it was definitely
a blow to the ego.

More details.

More details.

Like what, what, what two years into
it, like what was the, the point where

you're like, this is not working at all.

Like,

well, I think after like my first year,
um, of struggling so bad, I was kind of

conflicted with should I give up now?

Or should I keep pressing
and strive for success?

Like, and I kept just like pushing and
pushing cuz I just wa I was determined

not to give up because I feel like if I
gave up, especially at that time, like,

you know, in my younger years there, you
know, I was heavily into martial arts.

So everything I did was,
I was very headstrong.

I was very confident what I did, if I took
on something, I finished it to the end.

And this was just one of those things
that I was, I was losing, you know,

I wasn't making good enough sales.

Um, I wasn't being profitable.

I didn't understand business itself.

Um, anytime I tried to get help with
it, it just went down a backwards way.

So Did you detail that employees
Pretty much at the time?

I did have some at the time.

Yeah.

I wouldn't say anything crazy.

Like I'd have like a guy
working in the back with me,

maybe a designer at the time.

I've tried to hire salespeople.

Always failed miserably on that sense.

So I wasn't a good manager.

Um, I wasn't a good leader.

I wasn't good at business.

Actually, looking back at it, I wasn't
even good at selling signs apparently.

So, so it was just a, and at that time in
my area, so I'm up in near the DC area,

so there was, at that time there was
just a lot of sign shops popping up too.

So it was like, back in the, the
franchise days, there was a lot

of franchises that popped up.

And so there was a lot of
those things happening.

So there was a lot of options for
people, and it was a race to the

bottom, and I was one of those people.

All right, so like, let's

put a date on it.

I, I hate to like date
ourselves here, but like,

let's see,

9, 8, 7.

So this is like 2007.

Okay.

Right around that time,

right before the, uh, housing crash.

Yeah.

And that, that played a part in it too.

But obviously I'm not one of
those guys at this point who used

those types of things as excuses.

But there was a lot going on at that time.

A lot of people were pulling back in
business, so like, trying to sell it to

businesses would got to be very difficult.

Um, and obviously the people who were
in the game longer, who had a better

customer base, and I, I have weathered
the storm before, definitely knew how

to navigate those waters that I didn't
as like a little jet ski in a big ocean.

So, so after that, after that massive
failure, I bounced around doing, uh,

vehicle wrap installations for a while
and eventually started trade wraps.

And this was like my second.

My second chance at doing it right.

And the reason why I did that was because
everybody in around here all did signs,

but they all had like a specialty.

So like everybody did everything,
but like this guy did channel

letters and like this guy did
banners, but nobody was doing raps.

They all said they did
raps, nobody was doing raps.

And again, I'm one of those
people that's hardheaded.

So if it's hard, I feel like I should
do it because nobody else is doing it.

So I started down the wrap game and
with my design background, I wanted

to be, you know, the, the shop that
did the better designs, the better

material, and the better installs.

So, and we focused heavily
on commercial vehicle apps.

Nice.

Go for it.

Mike.

I you're deep in thought.

Well, after, after failing like
that sign business, I think we

all kinda consider the sign the.

What made you wanna get back
on the horse and try again?

You know, essentially in the
same, same business, same

industry,

you know, was it like to
prove, to prove yourself

that you could do it?

Yeah.

Um, yes.

Uh, it was, you know, before I felt
like I peaked and I just jumped in.

I didn't know anything.

And obviously it's kinda like,
uh, your, your education, right?

People go to college to learn stuff.

That was pretty much for my college
right there, like massive failure.

And I learned a lot from that failure,
which as long as we're learning from

it, it's technically not a failure.

At the time, it definitely felt like a
f failure, like it huge blow to my ego.

Like, uh, looking back at it, you know,
nowadays, like talking about anxiety,

depression and stuff is pretty normal.

Back then, I was probably massively
depressed through all that stuff,

you know, feeling like a failure
for everything that we did.

So getting back on the horse, it was
definitely more of a, I can do this

and I want to do it differently.

I wanna build an actual business,
not just, I guess the place to

get something done or to, to try
to just be creative, like I wanna

build like an actual business.

And it was something more specialty.

It was a little bit harder to
sell at the time because around

here there weren't a lot of people
getting like vehicle wraps done.

There were a few.

So it was definitely more of
a challenge to go that way.

And yeah, I did have that chip
on my shoulder to get it done.

That's still what drives
me today, honestly.

It's like I, I still look at that
as it's still something that's there

that I do not want to go back to
and I can't let that go, honestly.

So what did

you do differently, like
the second time around?

Like was it like from the start,
like, Hey, I'm gonna like totally

go 180 of where I was previously,
or like how, like what was the.

Hey, I'm gonna give this another shot.

Like what were the next steps that
you took to actually like, Hey, I'm

gonna build a business this time.

Like I'm gonna do this differently.

So that's, that's, that's a
great, great thing to ask.

So the way I kind of, the way, the
way it kind of shaped up was, so when

I first did my first business, right,
I went out, I did the right thing,

got the loans, lots of loans, got the
printers, got got, got everything right

to just do a whole like shop startup.

This time around I was gonna start
leveraging other people's printers

and buy the material from them
and kind of start off slowed.

Cuz I honestly, I still didn't even
really believe in myself at that moment.

Right?

Um, it was more of like, hey, I had people
asking for wraps to be done, you know?

Cause they would see me doing it at
other people's bays and then they would

be showing it off to their friends.

And then their friends have
businesses and they're like, well,

hey, why does this one look so good?

And why don't mine look that way?

And I'm like, well, because
I'm doing it, you know?

So it kind of just became like, still
I was in between a bunch of stuff.

So it kind of just became, hey, well I'm
gonna go get the prints made and then

I'm going to install them at your bay.

And so that's kind of
the soft space there.

So I didn't have to have any loans.

I could install it really quick.

Um, with quality, I could do the
design myself, put the graphics on and

then get paid right after it's done.

So it was a way for me to kind of
generate cash and start paying off

some of my debts that I occurred.

In that process.

I ended up meeting somebody who,
it was an HB business owner and

we ended up partnering on this.

And it was really start off
just to wrap his vehicles cuz

he had so many to get done.

And so he kind of wanted to have
his own in-house crew there.

Oh wow.

Wow.

And so it was a way for me also
to offset that risk and depend

on his, uh, business knowledge.

And during our course of doing
this, you know, Just because you

own one business doesn't mean
that you can run another business.

So I learned a ton from him.

But running a vehicle wrap
shop or a sign shop, like an

HVAC C shop, just doesn't work.

So we had to restructure on some
things, and I took over learning more

about leadership, learning more about
business and those types of things.

And it wasn't until probably like
five years in that I actually

did that, like five years in.

It was like, the goal for me
was to be like, I just wanna

get to a million dollar shop.

Right?

If I got to a million dollar
shop, I would feel successful.

Especially after failing miserably, right?

Yeah.

Pretty common.

So being a million dollar
shop, I would feel successful

for everybody, I think in the industry.

Like, Hey, what was that?

If I, I said, I think it's a pretty common
thread for most people in the industry,

especially like the smaller shops,
like, Hey, if I hit a million dollars in

sales, like everything's, it'll be gravy.

Like everything

will be fine.

Yeah, and let me touch on
that too, because this, this

was, this was huge for me.

So I had that same mentality, right?

If I hit a million dollars in
revenue, I will be successful.

And so what I ended up doing is I
ended up putting everything on my back

and pushing and pushing and pushing.

Yes, I was hiring people,
yes, I was training people.

I still, at this point, was
probably not a good leader.

Oh, I definitely was not a good leader.

I was definitely way better
at selling than I was before.

And I had a great customer base, so I
ended up just putting everything on my

back and pushing and pushing and pushing
to get to that million dollar mark.

And I hit it.

And when I hit it, I'm li I feel like
I'm standing there, I'm tired, I'm

exhausted, and I'm looking at everything
and absolutely nothing is different.

Nothing.

And I felt failure creeping in
again because I felt like in

my head, if I hit that number,
things are gonna be different.

And it wasn't.

It wasn't different at all.

And I'm looking at like the employees
that I have had at the time.

I'm just like, these people
hate me and I hate them.

Like, what am I actually building here?

What am I actually doing?

And I said, well, maybe if I
try to get 2 million, maybe

things will be different then.

And then I thought about how
much more work that would be and

how exhausting that's gonna be.

And that's when I realized that I
had to actually change my approach to

everything and start learning more about
business and leadership training and

bringing the right people on to help
me actually move this business forward.

Cuz it can't all be me.

It can't all run through me.

It's gotta run through other
people to actually be scalable.

So I spent a lot of time doing
that and since then I've definitely

created some massive processes and
training in my business that has

definitely helped scale massively.

So everything's going good.

Now

that's, uh, I guess hindsight is 2020.

Like you see very self-aware now, which
is a a hundred percent a good thing.

Uh, like at that moment of.

Like, Hey, this is, I hit that $1 million
mark and it just didn't feel great.

Like, what were, what were the
next like steps that you took

after you realized like, Hey, I've
got to make a big change here.

Like, what was like the
first one or two steps?

So I remember sitting in this office
where we're at, and so I recently

had a daughter at that time.

And you know, I'm still working super
late, I'm busting my ass, working

weekends, working nights, and I'm sitting
in here and I'm just like, my daughter's

never gonna know who the hell I am.

Right?

And so that was one of the pivotal
chains I needed cuz I needed

to actually duplicate myself.

So I started just like thinking like,
look, I just need to learn more.

I mean, I, I, I don't consider
myself like book smart, but

I can learn anything, right?

So I just started like googling, like I.

Business classes or seminars or something
just to like, just get me something.

Um, I ended up going down,
ended up signing up for Tony

Robbins Business Mastery.

I went down that path, learned a ton.

Ended up hiring coaches to help me.

Business coaches in general.

Ended up hiring specialty coaches
in certain areas that I needed

more, more specialized help with.

Like I hired a fantastic hiring
coach, which definitely helped

my game on hiring people.

Highly recommend that cuz that is a
skill, definitely a skill that everybody

needs to know cuz it is a skill.

So just massive personal development.

And the biggest pill that I had to swallow
that most people do in this case is that,

especially when it comes to like your
team and stuff, how many times do you

guys hear everybody say like, oh good.

Help's.

Hard to find, can't find them.

Everybody in

the sun industry

says, I need, I need
people can't find them.

And if I, if I bring them on and I
train 'em, they just leave right?

The biggest pill you have to swallow is
that the reason why you're having trouble

attracting the right people, keeping
the right people is because of you.

It's leadership.

It's not, it's not the hiring, it's not
the employee market or the pool, it's you.

And that was the biggest pill I had to
swallow is cause I had to go through

some massive personal development on
my end as far as learning my personal

growth on who I am and how I can treat
others better and be a leader for them,

to give them all the tools necessary to
be the best version of themself for me.

You guys are nodding your heads, Pete, a
way for you to like jump in where you at?

How much

I'm taking so many notes,

taking so many notes.

Uh, no, no.

In all honesty.

Um, being a business consultant,
being a franchise consultant,

And a sign shop consultant.

There's a lot,

there's a lot there that resonates
with me on multiple levels.

So the first is, is

that you wrote, you said

something, you know, just because
you open up one business doesn't

mean you should open up another.

And that one and that one kind of,
I'm not gonna give you too much

pushback, but I do want, we do want
you to know I disagree with that.

Okay.

Well, and no, well, let's, lemme clarify.

It's not to open another, you
can't open another, right.

It's just that just because you're
successful in one industry doesn't

mean that you're automatically going
to be successful in another industry.

If you're applying the same
principles as that one.

If you can apply business
principles, that's different story.

Okay.

That I will agree with then thank
you for clarifying that because Yeah.

You know, look, you, first of
all, tremendous kudos to you

for being open and honest.

You must be real comfortable with
your past in order to talk about

this in, in a public setting.

So kudos to you for sharing that story.

Hopefully there are

some,

Uh, sign shop.

In fact, I actually know some of them.

I actually know a lot of sign shop owners
that have very little business sense.

Okay.

And a lot, it's, it's.

It's not something to laugh at.

Don't laugh.

I, I'm not, don't laugh.

No, I'm

just, I'm just laughing.

It's not something

to

laugh at because I, I, you'd be

surprised.

You'd be surprised.

It's true.

Hold on a second.

You'd be surprised with how
many people get into this.

We, we talked about it before on another
podcast or two, like the Emith method.

Mm-hmm.

How many people think that they can get
into business because they think they

could do it better than their boss?

Like, that's not, that is not
a reason to get into business.

So I, I, kudos to you, Brad, for,
for mentioning that, for bringing

that up because you are a victim of

what most people try to do, you know?

And, and the fact is, is that you have
the wherewithal to actually acknowledge

it, learn from it is the key to it.

And then that's what's leading you into
this next, uh, venture of yours, which I'm

really excited to hear about by the way.

But

nonetheless,

you have stopped, first of all, your
journey to getting into trade wraps.

I have a quick question there.

How did you get

that name?

Well, it came because, um, my partner
at the time gave it that name.

Um, and that was because we were
doing, he was in the H V A C realm.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

So he's in trades.

So the idea, the idea was
to go after the trades.

Right.

Okay.

And that's, we've done that very strongly.

And it's been, it's been good.

So your great relationships,
so you are, yeah.

You

go from impact signs, which, but
you know, listen, it's a good name.

It's not the worst name I've ever heard.

And you go to trade wraps,
which is very niche.

You're talking about one service
for one type of industry.

Now, I'm not saying, uh, the
trades is not one industry.

The trades is multiple industries,
but it's a vertical that is blue

collar trades, you know, it's, it's,
uh, electricians, plumbers, HVAC

painters.

It's pretty drain cleaning,

right?

Those are, those

are some significant trades there.

So you, you, I've actually was talking
about this with someone, with one of

my consultant clients the other day.

Uh, I was actually pointing them in
this direction, uh, basically saying

like, Hey, this is a great opportunity
for you to get additional revenue.

You want to go after these markets?

Because guess what?

And I, and I, this is exactly
what I told him, so I'm going

to hope for your, uh,

opinion on this statement here.

Definitely.

I said, I said to him this week, I
said, Damien, you can find clients

where your business thrives when
they, when their business expands.

Yes.

It's a very interesting vertical
because you said that your, you started

this with your partner who said, I
just want an in-house wrap company.

Like they need to expand their
fleet to grow their business,

and every time they expand their
fleet, it's more revenue for you.

So tremendous, tremendous kudos
for getting into that business.

I'm familiar with a couple of
companies that are in this space

that do it in a more national scale.

Do you do

national work or are you focused more

on like regional mom and
pop kind of companies?

Well, our main focus is
definitely our local market.

I like to dominate where I can,
local domination is what we call it.

And we do work nationwide.

And you do work nationwide?

Yeah.

Do you, do you ta,

do you tap into like
a nationwide installer

network to do your Yeah, we've,
we've created our, or we've

created our own over the years.

Um, just meeting people and
reaching out to them and figuring

out which ones are the best ones.

Trust me, just cuz they have
certifications doesn't mean

that they're the best, but we're
looking for the honest people.

Right.

So there

could potentially be companies, sign
shops that don't really get into

the rap game too much, but might
have an opportunity here for you

to design.

Print and then also get it, uh, installed
and sourced locally in their market.

At a, at a, at a trade rate, I'm
assuming that you would do some

sort of wholesale work as well,

is that correct?

Yeah, we can do some of that, yeah.

All right.

So there's a lot of

sign shop owners out there that would
love to tap into that kind of market.

Uh, so where can they find out about

trade wraps?

Oh, you can find us [email protected].

That's for sure.

We try to be everywhere as much as
possible, but, um, you know, going back

to your comment about expanding with a
company, um, I always like to say like,

the riches are in the niches, right?

So specializing your shop,
it doesn't have to be wraps.

It doesn't even have to be
like, um, even the type of

customer that I'm chasing after.

You could look at your shop right now and.

You could just say like, look, if I'm
offering a vast array of services,

how can I narrow that field so that
I can be more specialized in this,

that way that I can turn it out faster
and be the expert in that field.

Like there's a guy around here, like
he's just, he's the banner guy and

that man just has banners material
on his printers at all times.

He buys massive rolls of banner,
so he gets it at a good, at a

good rate, and he's just cranking
out banners all day, every day.

Now he'll do anything else for you,
but he's known as the banner guy.

And like for me, if you ask me
to make you a sign, we're gonna

say, sorry, we don't do that.

Yeah.

The ability to say no.

Uh, I think that's tremendous.

We've talked about that a lot of times.

Even going back to that.

That pod they had podcast
episode that we did with Maggie.

Like that amazing way that she
told no to her clients when I was

like, still fascinated by that,
that's still in the back of my head.

But,

you know, that's great

that you're a niche shop.

Um, I think that you took a ga
well, you took a risk, naturally.

You took a risk getting into business.

That's a risk naturally.

But you took a, you took a risk
getting into a business with a partner

that you may not know that well, and
you built a relationship with this

individual and you grew a niche shop.

And now how many vans do you typically

wrap a week in-house?

Probably,

probably like 15 to 20.

Wow.

That

is a, that is a lot.

That's tremendous.

Yeah.

That's great.

So how, how large of a team do you

have now?

We have four installers, four
full-time installers, and we

got two in training right now.

Do you do your training

internally

or do you outsource your training?

Oh, 100% internal.

Excellent.

Wow, that's awesome.

I love that.

I, I love

that

what you've built here is very rare
in the industry, but I wish more

and more people would

do well, like you
mentioned the EMyth, right?

Mm-hmm.

And that's a fantastic book.

If anyone has not read it,
stop whatever the hell you're

doing and just read that book.

I swear to God.

Like I remember reading that and
I thought the guy was over my

shoulder, like looking at me.

And what I take away from that
book in itself, which was a massive

start to everything else that I was
doing as well, is the fact that we

are, we're artists out here trying
to use our craft to make money.

And until we learn how to
duplicate ourselves, we really

don't become a business.

You guys have probably heard of
Osais Cashflow Quadrant, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've heard of, dude, we're

dumb.

We don't, we don't know what that is.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Speak.

So, okay.

Robert, Robert Kiyosaki is another
author out there that has, he's

the Rich Dad Poor Dad book.

Yes.

Yes.

I was gonna say, and he's
also a book called, yeah.

He's also got a book called
The Cashflow Quadrant.

Right.

And the premise of the Cashflow
Quadrant is you got a quadrant, right.

And the, the top square is
employee who swaps their time for

money, and the employee's always
trying to get to self-employed.

And the self-employed is still swapping
their time for money because they

always, they have all the risk, but
they're the ones actually in the

business still working every day.

So if they get sick or they get injured,
they're not making income that day

because they're not leveraging people.

The self-employed need to be going
to the business owner quadrant,

which is where the business owner is.

Someone who leverages people for money.

Not their time.

And then the business owner's trying
to get to, uh, the investor quadrant,

which is leveraging your money for money.

And so, so many people probably even
listening to this are still stuck

in that self-employment quadrant and
it's hard to get out of that quadrant.

But the only way to do that is to create
systems and processes for yourself.

And that's what like the
Emith talks about is agreed.

Creating the systems and
processes to duplicate yourself

and to streamline your business.

I always compare everything
that I do now to like, I mean,

look at Chick-fil-A, right?

They do chicken.

You want it on a, on a bun, you want
it in strips, you want it in nuggets.

You want it fried or grilled.

That's it.

It's your options.

Specialized chicken, we could
even argue whether that's even

the best chicken sandwich.

Doesn't matter.

It's how they make other people feel
and they streamline their process.

It doesn't matter if that they got
a three rings around the building

for a drive-through, they're still
slinging chicken out the door.

Local Chick-fil-A

is extremely busy at all times.

I, yeah, the story resonates with me.

I get so frustrated when
the kids want Chick-fil-A.

It's right by the interstate,
so it's like 20 minutes.

I mean, it is very fast.

Like compared to like, if you go to like
the, another drive through Chick-Fil-A

runs a lot faster, but the Lion's
always longer, so I I feel you there.

Yeah, well they're, they just,
they made a niche, right?

They said we're doing chicken
sandwiches and chicken stuff and

they systematize it so well that
yes, they have like a franchise.

You should always be building your
business as if you were going to sell it.

So why not build it like in a franchise
model to where it's that, I don't wanna

say that dumb, but it's that easy, right?

I love this guy.

I love

this guy.

I think this guy is tremendous.

He's speaking my language,

he's speaking my love language.

I,

I wanna ask you a question, Brad, that
I think, like Peter and I have asked

this many times to like other owners
that we've talked to and even on like

some of our group coaching calls,
like on like the trade wrap side.

Why would a plumber do business with
you versus I I'm sure there's plenty

of competitors inside your market now.

Like

I, you know, I love that question.

I get that a lot.

Um, and it also, when it comes to
sales, I get that a lot too, cuz

people actually ask that question.

So like anyone, we all have competition.

I don't care if it's the cheapest
guy in town, the most expensive guy

in town, I be completely honest,
I am not the cheapest guy in town,

nor do I ever want to be, right.

Price is only a factor
in the absence of value.

So that's what we strive for.

So if you're gonna use me as a, as a
plumber to use me over somebody else

would be that I understand your business.

I understand that every hour
that that vehicle is off the

road, you're losing money.

So I have a streamlined process to get
your design done, to get your prints

made, get your vehicle here in and out
as quickly as possible to get on the

road making money for you so that I'm
not just another one of your headaches.

I want you to focus on your
business and grow your business.

How was that Pete?

So,

no, I'm gonna more vehicles.

I'm gonna ask you a un even

tougher question now.

Okay.

They're never tough.

Hit me.

Couple

of weeks back.

We had a special

guest on this, on this show
who was also in your line

of work.

Okay.

Mr.

Dan

Antonelli from

Kick Charge.

Oh yes.

Yeah, I've worked with him a couple times.

Yeah.

Okay.

So.

Um, let's, let me ask this question
as in only, the only way I know

how, why would I pick you over

him?

Oh, plain and simple.

I'm not a design firm.

Oh, well then I'm not
giving you my business.

Right.

I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a
wrap company that does wraps.

Dan is a design firm.

Love it.

Love the answer.

So do you have, do you have
any designers on your team?

Yeah.

No, we definitely do.

We're able, so this is the big difference
between like what he does and what we do.

Right?

So Dan does very, very well at shaping.

We, we exchanged all the time.

We're at the same trade
shows and everything.

So he does, has done a very good
job at creating branding, right?

And that's what he does.

If you want branding,
that's gonna be your guy.

But not everybody wants branding.

So if you'd want us to do vehicle
wrap design for you, not branding,

vehicle wrap design for you, we
can help you in that dynamic.

But either way, you can even bring
your own design to us after you

get the design done from him.

We're here to print and
install for you nationwide.

Okay?

Fair enough.

Yes, you're right.

Not everybody needs branding,
especially from a franchise perspective.

Like you mentioned earlier, they
already have it established,

right?

Yeah.

I mean, people should have good
branding, don't get me wrong.

But not everybody wants to go through
that process and I'm not, and again, and

I'll and, and to that, I'll tell you why.

Cuz when I first started out
with trade wraps, I was actually.

Similar to Dan where I was, I was
probably a little bit more snooty.

I was like, you know if cuz
I'm a designer first, right?

Right.

So I was like, well if I don't, if
I don't do the design, I'm not gonna

do your rap because I can't have you
driving around with a shitty design.

You know?

And back then, like the designs
that people love, the H V A C

world, were like the fire, the ice
and throwing a lion too, why not?

Right.

So, or a bald eagle or
some shit like that.

Right?

So it was like these
atrocious designs, right.

And I would just be like, I'm not
doing that for you because I didn't

design it and I didn't put my
spin on it and that kind of stuff.

Right.

And I remember there was a day that,
it was a morning, I was sitting at a

stoplight here and I was struggling
that week I was in survival mode.

And I recently, a couple, about a
couple weeks before that, I turned

away a guy who wanted fire, ice and
some other shit in there, right?

And I'm like, nah, I'm not doing it.

And I see four van wraps go
through the intersection of of,

of that company.

Mm-hmm.

Yep.

And I had to, I made a decision at
that point like, am I in the design

business or am I in the wrap business?

Because I could have done those
wraps and gotten paid today.

So I just let people know how I feel.

Like I'd be like, look man, this is a
great design or this isn't a great design.

It's up to you to let
us change it for you.

Cuz we have some customers that are
with us that are massive companies.

They've done massive amount of work's,
gotten hundreds of vehicles from us.

And I'm, in my opinion, their design
is definitely not the best design.

But they still grow and they
still buy vehicle wraps from us.

So am I gonna turn them away?

No, cuz I'm in the wrap business.

So that's the big difference between us.

I

see.

And, and you wanna know something?

That last statement is pretty much it.

It spells why you're, why you have been
successful in this next venture here.

Because once you realize, and, and trust
me, I, oh, I was right there with you.

I didn't wanna do a wrap if
I, if I didn't design it.

I think any, there are a lot of
us out there, I think even maybe

the majority of us don't wanna
do a wrap if we don't design it.

Okay.

I mean, because again, who wants
to put that People are seeing

that come outta your shop, you're
putting that on your portfolio page.

People, you're putting
that on your social media.

Do you really want to show off, like

text everywhere and

you know, like, let's put your
email address on the wrap.

Like, no, like, just, just no, just no.

Leave it alone.

Like I, yeah, I, I've been there.

I know exactly what you're saying.

And to tell you the truth.

I think the industry that you chose to
be in the trades is what led you down

that decision, because you are right
that HVAC company, Hey, guess what?

They're only focused on one thing too,
and that's growing their business.

Mm-hmm.

And there's more and more people,
and I actually know this more than

most people, but I, there's more
and more people looking for HVAC

work and looking for plumbing work.

And if they grow another vehicle
or two a year, who gives a crap

what their wrap looks like?

That's business.

That's money in your pocket.

Yeah.

You know, I don't like the way that
Neighborly announces their wrap on,

you know, whatever brand that they're
putting out these days or whatever

brand, like One Hour Heating and Cooling.

Or Benjamin Franklin, I think
Benjamin Franklin's got one

of the ugliest reps out there.

Right?

But who the hell, who

the hell cares when they have
500 locations and each location

having four, five trucks?

Who the hell cares?

That's business.

So for

that, my printer, my printer's print blue.

That's right.

They, they

sure do.

They sure do.

All right.

So trade

wraps.com.

That's how our viewer, that's how our
viewers, our viewers and listeners can,

can, can get in touch with you here.

Check it out.

If you ever in need of, of any type
of wholesale printing and wrap and

install, go see Brad [email protected].

Now, let's get over that and let's
get onto this new thing here, and

I'm so eager to hear all about it.

Now that we've heard a lot of your
journey, tell us how and why you

got into developing this unique tool

and software for yourself.

Well, you know, like I'm always trying
to be the best at what I do, right?

And whenever there's a problem in my
business, and I'm sure other people

can relate to this, but whenever
there's a problem here, I can always

drive it back to communication.

Right.

There's some form of communication
was not done properly, or we didn't

communicate properly, customer
didn't communicate properly, and

that's why we have a problem.

So I've grown my business up until this
point been what I feel like is successful

enough, but it's, it's not enough.

Like it needs to go more.

But communication still is always a thing.

And I've never had a CRM before.

I've had a, I've had a software forever.

I have like the old school series
to do all my production work and

thank God we're moving on from that.

But I have, I have the old school
series for all my production work,

but I've never had an actual crm.

So like, if I, what's wrong with
that Old, old school series?

What's wrong with old school series?

I mean,

how long ago has it been since it's 1995?

How many years is that?

I know almost 30.

30.

Like that's, that's
the technology is 1995.

It looks like Windows 95.

Man.

It's, it doesn't, doesn't
integrate with anything.

So anyways, sorry, Sears, um, still
like, so I've never, it's, I've never

had an actual cr just pile on the

lawsuits, man, just pile on
the defamation lawsuits here.

I've never had an actual CRM that would
actually like, be able to quantify doing

sales and communicating with my customers.

Like I've looked at things like
podium so that I could like text

back and forth with my customers.

And I think Podium wanted to
charge me like 600 bucks a

month or something to do that.

And so much more per user.

And that's only for like texting and
reputation management, which isn't

a bad option, but it's just another
software that we have to log into.

And I got tired of adding all
these additional software.

So what we've done is, um, I
started working on a CRM for myself.

And creating that for trade wraps.

Because when I look at other
CRMs that are out there, they're

geared towards like tint shops.

They're geared towards like car
manufacturers and they kind of do some

of this, but they don't do this and
then they kind of do this, but then

they want to charge you a hundred
dollars per user over here and just

racks up a high bill real quick.

So started going down that journey.

Um, I found somebody else, his name
is Brett Knott, he's down in Florida.

Um, he's in the rap and tint
game as well and he was doing

the same thing for his shop.

We were comparing notes and
um, started kind of working

together on some stuff there.

And then through the people that
I coach, cuz I do my own business

consulting, business coaching,
uh, for people in our industry.

Um, they were asking me
like, what CRM are you using?

And I'm like, oh, I'm
kind of making my own.

And they we're like, Hey, can we buy this?

And so we ended up making it into a
business and we're calling it Torque, C

r M, which is uh, T O R Q, torque crm.

And so what this does is it brings in
all your two-way texting, your recorded

phone calls, your emails, any of your
social media conversations, whether

it's Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,
WhatsApp, and even a web chat, a

live web chat all into one inbox.

And then on top of that, it helps, you
know, manage your pipeline, automates

everything else that you're doing, um,
helping you make sales that way through

the pipelines and the automations there.

And it replaces about $2,000 worth
of subscriptions cuz it even has

built in things like, uh, email
campaigns, social media planners,

blog posting, tons of stuff here, man.

Uh, you can make your own websites in it.

Um, web chat features.

And more really, like we're integrating
all the AI stuff in there as well.

It's fantastic.

It's been a fantastic tool for my business
and the people that are using it right

now are having so much fun using it.

So

it like, getting into software is
like a different jump, is it, is like

a completely different industry and
like I've, oh, I've, I've been here.

Like, did you have any like,
apprehension about this or was it

just like, Hey, like the people
that I'm working with or coaching

are like, Hey, they need, this was,

well exactly that.

So yes, I had apprehension with it.

Like anything, right?

Like I have, I do, so I do coaching,
I have real estate and I have this,

so I have my hands full already.

So to open up another business was
like, do I even have time for this?

This what I want to do.

Numbers look good.

But the main thing is,
I get to help people.

Like that's why I do coaching in the first
place is because I get to help people.

Cause I wanna be, the guy
I wish was there for me.

So the driving force for this was to put
this out there for it's easy, accessible

for anyone else who's starting their
business and can actually control their

communication with their customer and
actually have them help 'em do sales.

Like why not increase your sales game?

Make more money.

Yeah.

I would, I would argue, yeah,

that, like, I, I agree with you that
99% of shops that I talk to, like the

communication, even just like after
they've taken an order, is not, not great.

Like after the sale, it is a good
place to like fix your communication.

But, but even prior to the sale, like
how many shops out there aren't getting

back to leads within like 24 hours, let

alone just a couple of hours?

Oh yeah.

So I've, I've built in
automations to actually do that.

So as like a lead comes in, for instance,
any, when a lead comes in from any

junction, it then it's on a timer, right?

And to, if my salespeople don't
sell it within this 24 hour period,

then it automatically starts
following back up with that customer.

You know, we have built in power
dialers for you to like go down and

call a bunch of people at one time.

We have automatic reminders
that will go out and this is all

customized to you and your business.

That's what I like about it
cuz like your business, my

business, we're all different.

Even a wrap business to a wrap
business, we all sell differently.

We do things differently.

And a lot of these CRMs you have
to buy and then you have to morph

your business around what it can do.

This one morphs to you.

And so it's all completely
customizable there.

So like we used to have a problem with
like having people drop off on time,

their vehicle on time, which really
messes with our schedule when we're

trying to get people out the door.

So now we have automations built
in to where if we put you on our

install schedule, it sends you
confirmation texts and email.

And then it reminds you the day
before text and email to drop off.

There's dropoff instructions,
there's clicks to the funnels that

actually tell you what our dropoff
policies are, that type of things.

Um, then there's follow-ups after that.

So in doing that, we've definitely
increased our dropoff on timeness.

I guess we haven't really had any
problems since implementing that.

How, how

long were you running this in your own
business before you were like, Hey, let's

spin this out, or, or was that like the
intention from day one of like, Hey, we're

gonna spend this out into its own thing?

The intention from day one was
definitely not to spin it out.

Um, it was definitely to build it for us.

To use it for us.

Um, and even now, whatever I do
to it, I'm building it for the

betterness of, of me, honestly.

Everybody else just kind of gets those
benefits of whenever I'm trying to do

some new feature with ai, like we have
conversational AI coming out soon.

This is gonna be huge.

But building it that way has
definitely been, was built for us.

And then of course to give
to other people as well.

Yeah, I, I think there's a lot
to be said for that of like,

scratching your own itch.

Uh, and I could see why
that would be valuable.

Like if you've got a working model for a
wrap shop as working well for you, like

90% chance that it's gonna work well for
another rap shop in a different location.

Yeah, no, it definitely has.

You know, everybody, we had, all the
people that I was coaching, we had come

and do a beta test with us for a while and
they got massive success with it so far.

And I mean, like I said, the,
the best form about it to me

is the communication part.

It does so much more, like it
does a much on the marketing

side, but the communication, the
reputation management is fantastic.

So now when somebody says, like
for instance, I'd be like, Hey,

did you call that guy back?

Yeah, totally did.

And I'd be like, did he
really call that guy back?

Yeah, totally did.

What'd they say?

Oh, they said, uh, no thanks,
like they don't want it.

Well now I can go and listen to the
conversation and I can give them critiques

so I can see one if they actually really
did call the customer back or if they

did text the customer or they did email.

Cuz we can all see the same
information going back and forth.

Nice.

So

like even, even like the out
outbound calls are recorded

and tracked inside the system.

Yep.

So it's definitely helped
for training as well.

So like, you know, having salespeople
onboard and I think for them, even just

hearing their own voice and how they talk
to customers, they've definitely been

upping their game, but also then I'm able
to give them pointers back and say, Hey

man, like try this this time instead of
like talking like this, talk like this, or

you gave 'em the wrong information here or
you gave 'em the right information here.

So we can definitely do some
coaching based off that too.

Nice.

What um, how long were you guys
in like development for this?

I asked for my own.

Purposes, cause I've got
like a couple of, of software

projects in the works right now.

Is it no CRM though?

Is it ever outta, is it
ever out of development?

It's, it's never not, but it's never done.

Yeah.

How long do

they take you guys to get to the
point where like, Hey, this is

working well for us, let, let's take
it and launch it for other people?

I'd probably say about six hard months.

Six hard months.

Lots of nights, lots of weekends.

Um, even still now, lots of
nights and lots of weekends.

We rolled it out to our beta team.

It definitely was not smooth with our beta
team cuz they were so eager to get it.

I kept trying to push it off
and they were, they were just

like, Brad, I want this now.

Like, I need to use this now.

And I'd be like, Hey.

And you know, of course I'd be telling
'em like, Hey look, I just made this.

Like, it's so cool.

I didn't, wasn't meaning to tease
them with it, but like, it was

probably coming off as a tease.

And so they're like,
just, just give it to me.

Just give it.

Definitely our first couple people that
we onboarded was disastrous, but you

know, obviously we learned from that.

We move on.

Okay.

How many people

do you have

on the platform now?

Um, I think we're about up to 30
right now, so we're still just

getting started with everything.

So we have about 30 users on the platform
and obviously we're looking to expand

and help everybody else any way we can.

We have reviews coming in
for it, which is great.

We're still working on
perfecting even our own website.

Um, but we just, we're getting so much
feedback from what the people want and we

wanna still keep working on the product
itself and keep continuing to grow it,

add more features, that type of thing.

Okay.

What does, uh, what does your pricing look

like, Brad?

So we have like three different
tier pricings, like most things.

So we have like a basic, if you just wanna
use it just for communication, like if

you just wanna use the texting and all the
forms of communication with the recorder,

phone calls, you can create your own
automations and those types of things.

You're looking at 1 97 a month.

And then if you want some of our
templates, you know, like if you

wanna jumpstart and have us come
in and install like commercial rap

templates, um, personal rap templates
or tint stuff, if you guys do tint,

like we got templates for that already
set up, then you're probably looking

at, um, 2 97 a month right there.

And then we have our hire two
package, which is 3 97 a month.

And that's like us coming in and actually
building it out, all custom for you.

And there's a setup fee
involved with that one.

It's about $3,000.

Depends on like how big of a shop you
are and how much customization you want.

But the big thing here that I love
that I wanted to add to this, that I

actually absolutely hated for other
CRMs, we don't have a user limit on there

and we're not charging you for users.

So if you have a shop of 10 people
right now and they all need to

be on this platform, that's what
your monthly fee's gonna be.

It's not gonna be.

I like that, you know, oh, it's $200.

It's, it's not this low.

Like, hey, it's $99 a month, but
then it's, you know, a hundred

dollars a month after that for
every user you put on there.

Yeah.

I like that.

Right.

Just like having been on the other
side of that, like paying per

user e especially when you've got
different roles within a shop, right?

You, you, ideally you want
everybody on your team to be in

the same platform, but mm-hmm.

Some of those people are gonna use
that more than others, but it's

still like, I feel like some, some
platforms penalize you based on that.

Yeah.

Well, like one of the best
automations that we made we're

actually one of the simplest ones.

How many of you guys have a missed call?

Yeah.

Every single day, right?

So if you think about what
your average ticket is, right?

If you miss a call, that's
whatever that average ticket is.

So for me, like the average vehicle
wrap for me is about 4,500 bucks, right?

So if I miss a call, that's an easy 4,500
bucks right there that I'm missing out on.

And I used to never know if somebody
actually even called them back.

Right.

So that could just be
lost sales right there.

So what we have is you have an automation
built in to where it can tell if that is

a new person calling in and there's a 50
50 chance that it's like somebody trying

to sell you a car warranty or Right.

Or business funding.

It's a $4,500 sale.

Right.

Or to whatever your average ticket is.

So we have it, so if it misses
the call, it texts them back and

it starts to engage with them.

It's like, Hey, thanks
for calling trade wraps.

Sorry we missed your call.

How can we help?

And it just starts a texting conversation.

And what it also then does is it assign
for me, it assigns it to a couple

salespeople and then they have to return
that call just in case it was a landline.

They have to re actually call
that person back within 24 hours.

Okay.

I

curious, since you brought
up text messaging like.

On the wrap side, like trade wraps, like
how, how much business do you guys do

through text messaging now versus email?

You know, I absolutely love it
because I, you know, so I'm big on,

we sell business to business, right?

And so I used to see all these people out
there that were like, yeah, texting back

and forth with their customers and stuff.

And obviously that would have
to be done on your phone.

So I either have to give everybody
phones or they're using their personal

phones, which you definitely don't want.

Yeah.

Talking to your customers
and then you have no access

to any of that stuff, right?

And still makes everything
flow through you.

So I actually thought that, hey,
no, we're business to business.

Like they don't want to
text, they want to email.

That's more professional, right?

I gotta be honest, ever since we
started texting people through this

platform, they have been so much
more responsive through texting.

Like we could just text somebody
right now and they're just

so quick to get back to us.

Whether it's an estimate, whether it's
taking a payment, whether it's just like,

Hey, you're dropping it off today, right?

Oh, yep.

On my way right now.

It's been fantastic.

The rate of business, like actually
even like our web chat, right?

Have you guys ever used a web
chat on your website before?

Uh, on the Better Sign Shop website?

Yes.

On any website, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Usually it's like a portal and
it's like a sell whole separate

app you have to log into.

Oh, and it's like a portal, right?

And then like once you, once you go
onto it, they're usually gone, right?

And if they're gone, then
you kind of miss out on it.

So what this does is it creates a
form, so the web chat actually draws

them into a texting conversation.

So, Gotcha.

And so now if they walk down the street or
they're in another country, whatever, like

we can still have our communication here.

So the texting has definitely
upped our game big time.

Nice,

nice.

I, Mike and I harped on this.

Hey, how long ago was it, Mike?

We did the shop management
software episode where we just

waxed for like an hour and a half.

But like for anybody out there, I, I just
want to get your take on it of like the

cost of building your own system versus
like buying something that's already made.

Like, talk to me about that side of it.

Like, I think you're in like a unique
position because you've actually built

it, you started building your own system
and now you're selling that system.

But like, well, and this is maybe six hard
months and then, but like I, for everybody

that's out there thinking of like, Hey,
we're gonna build something ourselves.

I, I wanna deter them from that because
too often it's like they don't, they

underestimate the, the effort involved.

I'm gonna, I melted my
brain for six hard months.

I'm still melting my brain.

I'm, like I said, I don't consider
myself like book smart, but I

can learn anything but this.

That's a whole realm that I had
no idea what the hell I was doing

and there was a lot of trial and
error with it, that's for sure.

I definitely pissed off some of
my customers trying stuff out.

Definitely had some of that go
on, but you know, it's, I when

it's just like how I talked to my
plumbing and H V C customers, right?

I got very good at understanding
what value is on how to skip time.

Like the big thing for us
is we need to condense time.

We need to stop thinking about
swapping time for money and

get those results faster.

That's why, like I said, I hired plenty
of coaches in my day now and some

of them were very specialized into.

I'm just gonna go ahead and
hire a hiring coach, right?

And he's gonna teach me everything
I need to know about hiring

and just get that done, right?

Instead of going to a general business
coach or going to a school, like,

we're just gonna go right there.

So I'm at the point now where like,
I understand value very heavily.

So if I have the opportunity just
to buy something already done, that

gets me to what I want to get to
faster so I can focus on growing my

business, I'm totally down for it.

It's just the value has to be there
and if the value's there, I have

no problem spending the money.

That's a great answer.

So for all the, the smaller guys
or even some of the larger guys

that are still stuck in that box
in your head that I have to do it,

let go, grow your business, focus

on one or two things at a

time.

Yeah.

And six.

And like, so one of the features
that we put in there was, um, you

guys never used Kajabi before.

Mm.

I've heard of it.

No, I don't.

It like the, like an online
learning platform type of

deal.

Yeah.

So at some point in time you guys are
probably paid for a class and you had

to show up to these, like online class
and it was like a video and some text

below on how to do whatever, some
supporting documents, things like that.

It was probably built out
of something like Kajabi.

So we put that in here as well.

And so like in six months time, like
you're talking about like building

yourself in six months time, could you,
instead of building out a platform for

yourself, could you actually take that six
months and apply it to building training

for your customers or for your, in your
employees to help further your business

forward and have onboarding a lot faster?

That's where I put my effort on.

Agreed.

Agreed.

Cool guys, do you, do you, Pete, Mike,
do you have any questions on the, the

signage thing before we wrap this up?

Or, I'm sorry, not the signage thing,
but the tort, uh, the CRM thing.

I have a

mission for Brad.

Not really related work, but

So, sounds like you started out your
career not being much of a business

person, kinda hating the business
side of things and making a lot of

mistakes there, but seems like now
you're kind of a business geek and

you really, really seem to enjoy it.

Do you, are you enjoying the business
side of the industry more now or do you

miss days where you were just sitting
there making cool shit all day long,

not dealing with the business at all?

That's a, that's an excellent question
because if you asked me years ago that

question, I probably would say, no, I
want to go back and do my art right.

I wanna wrap a vehicle
or design something.

You ha if you've started a business,
you owe it to yourself or, and it also

depends on whatever your vision is, right?

If you want to, if you want
to be self-employed, you

should just go ahead and.

Work for somebody else.

Cause otherwise there's too much
risk involved being self-employed and

you get none of the upside benefits.

Like you don't, so you might as
well just go work for somebody else.

So if you're not gonna jump to
that business quadrant, then don't.

But your vision has to be what you,
what you're trying to accomplish.

And for where I wanted to go, what
I wanted to take and bring up the

people that I wanted to bring up,
it requires more than just me.

And so it was hard for me because I
am, I am a very artistic person, so

details on art side are great, but
like numbers and data and all that

kind of stuff is super boring to me.

Straight up, honestly.

Right?

Super boring.

But I've had to learn to be that
guy to understand what growth is.

And so that's not my natural tendencies,
but I would say yes, I do love

business more because I understand
it more and the more, and it's never

something that I'm fully done learning.

And the more I learn about it is the
more that I can push home how I'm gonna

actually drive this business forward.

Yeah.

There was a, there was another
podcast I was listening to.

I can't even remember the podcast
now, but like, just a week ago,

that tells you how bad my memory is.

Or it could be that I've got
three little girls that it put

all these gray hairs on my head.

But I was listening, like the thing
that I took away from the podcast, and

this person was like, successful in
buying like, super boring businesses,

like plumbers that were trying
to retire and, and just mm-hmm.

You know, totally away from tech and
like, anything remotely crazy exciting.

Uh, but they, they said, uh, this,
this is what really stuck with me

was like, if you're gonna be in
the game, learn to love the game.

Like, just, just playing the game.

Uh, and it like, it, it reminded me of
kind of like a, like the Michael Jordan,

like, uh, The, the documentary and stuff.

And I can remember when I watched
that of just like how competitive that

guy was with, with just everything.

And you know, I think there's
something to that of being able to

like, get yourself up for whatever
it is that you're, you're doing.

Like just, just being able to keep
yourself interested in the game.

So even if you don't necessarily enjoy
it at first, like keep yourself in

the game, keep playing the game until
you know you've got that respect or

you, you've got that fire for it.

And like, strikes me, you
have to become obsessed.

Like you're that type of guy of
like, hey, like I hated all this

stuff, but like now, like Mike
said, you seem like you enjoy it.

Uh, at least you enjoy talking about it.

Um,

well, of course.

And, and I watched that documentary
as well and I definitely

had big takeaways from it.

Um, That I could apply
in business as well.

And the key takeaways from that
is to become obsessed, right?

But one of the key points of that is, even
in Michael Jordan's situation there, who

you are today is not who's gonna get you
there or where you're trying to go, right?

So we need to change who we
are to get where we're going.

So if you're trying to grow an actual
business, and you wanna be a business

owner, you need to be that person now.

So like when Michael Jordan was trying to
go for that next round of championships,

he had to be completely different.

There was a, they did a whole segment
on like, oh, they made a big deal.

He's lifting weights now.

He's never lifting weights
up until that point, right?

Like, he's lifting weights now.

He has to be somebody different
to actually achieve them.

He has to attract different people, right?

So that's what we have
to do in business as

well.

Well said, well said.

So, uh, as we transition to a
close here, Brad, like what's,

what's the future for you?

What's the future for me?

Well, uh, future for me is to continue
to, I just, I can't stop growing,

you know, I gotta keep growing.

Everything.

Like taking trade wraps to another
level is where I'm at right now.

Um, I wanna get torque into as
many hands as possible to help

their business as much as possible.

And I just wanna, conti, continue
to keep contributing out there.

And

a like the last question I got,
which is always a tough one, what

do you wanna be remembered for?

Ooh, what do I wanna be remembered for?

I wanna be, like I said in the
beginning here, I want to be the

guy that I wish was there for me.

Cuz when I was down and feeling, thank
you, thank, when I was down and feeling

like after that million dollar mark
I told you, I hit that plateau of, I

hit the million dollars and there was
nothing there for me and nothing changed.

I was very lost.

And I thought I was gonna creep back
down this whole failure route again.

And when I looked around, like I'm
very envious of the H V C plumbing

industry cuz if you, and I wanted to
start one of those businesses today.

There are plenty of coaches, there are
plenty like kind of businesses in a box to

help get you up to where you need to be.

And it's, I'm not gonna say it's easy,
but they have a lot more resources

than like what our industry has.

And specifically even just my,
like the, the wrap industry.

Like there's not a lot of people out there
that have systems and processes down to

grow and train installers and businesses
that are actually business oriented.

Right?

And so I had to go outside of that.

So I wanted to be the guy
that I wish was there for me.

Yeah.

Well said.

It was very nice.

Nice sentiment.

Cool.

Been a great conversation.

I've, I've really enjoyed, um, like
hearing you talk about your journey.

Uh, if people are interested in
torque crm, is it, what's the website?

How can they reach out?

The website is toric crm.com.

It's t O R Q cm.com.

You can definitely click on the
link there and, uh, schedule a demo.

We'll do a live demo for you.

Um, again, or if you just wanna
have a conversation, you know, I'm

always down to have conversations
with people cause I'm always trying

to grow and give back as well.

Excellent.

Well, Brad, we uh, appreciate
having you on, man.

I really appreciate you
taking the time out.

Been enjoyed.

Well, thank you again.

Thank you gentlemen.

Thanks Brad.

Take care

bud.

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