Better Sign Shop Podcast

Learn how to build a better sign
and prt shop from a few crusty

sign guys who've made more
mistakes than they care to admit.

Conversations and advice on
pricing, sales, marketing,

workflow, growth, and more.

Your listening to The Better Sign Shop
podcast with your hosts, Peter Kunis,

Michael O'Reilly, and Bryant Gillespie.

Before we jump into the episode,
I'd like to give a shout out to

our sponsor, GCI Digital Printing
Grand Format Printer to the trade

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No other vendor will go to the links
that GCI does to ensure you are

a satisfied customer to hear more
about their approach to business.

Hop back into the archives to episode nine
where the guys and I interview owner tj

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Hi guys.

Welcome back to the next episode
of the Better Side Shop podcast.

As always, I've got my
co-host, the side shop Yoda.

Mr.

Peter Corus, how are you, Pete?

Not

sick anymore.

That's good.

That's a, that's a plus, right?

God is this, this is like the
time of year that your kids.

Or just like, they're like little sponges
that soak up all the germs around them

and then they just transmit those to you.

That's what happens to, to me,

pretty much.

Pretty much, yeah.

I walk around my house with a, a can
of Lysol spraying down like almost

everything that they touch and
everything that they put in their

mouths, and they finally, they finally
caught up to me a couple of weeks ago.

Oh my God, dude.

First of all, men, when they get like a
cough, it's like, I want to get under the

covers under seven layers of blankets.

Like I give my wife so much credit,
she's been coughing for like three

weeks, really struggling through,
and she's not a whiner like me.

Like when I get, still does
all the things, still does the

laundry, cooks dinner every
night, you know, God bless her.

But for me, when I get sick,
it's like, don't talk to me.

I'm not doing a damn thing.

Going onto my, getting under my covers.

So it's, I've been like, uh.

I've been healthy for the
past 48 hours, which is good.

It's been a steady diet of halls and
dumb dumb lollipops for the sore throat.

And, uh, yeah.

Um, haven't really gotten much work done
in the past two weeks because of it.

So, uh, happy to finally be on the,
uh, on the right path and, uh, getting,

uh, getting in front of you, you again,
and, and enjoying these, uh, these

guests that we're gonna be bringing on.

Yeah.

Oh, I'm, I'm glad that
you're on the mend, man.

I, I tell you like, the challenge that
I have now is, is not like sickness.

Uh, my wife thought it was
a good idea to get a dog.

So we have a new dog in the house.

It is a puppy.

And, um, you know, I, what's, I
work from her, her name is Winnie,

Winnie Cooper, um, the girls.

Elle.

Yes.

So the girls.

Uh, growing paints, right?

I think that's what it is.

Was it growing paints or the Wonder years?

Growing pains.

Wonder, wonder, wonder Years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The, the hot, hot name.

Sure.

I always get them mixed up.

So like we got it around Halloween and
my girls, they dressed as the Sanderson

sisters from Hocus Pocus for Halloween.

Uh, so they called the dog Winifred
and I was like, nah, because that's

one of the witches names or something.

I was like, well if we're gonna call her
Winnie, let's call her Winnie Cooper.

So that's how we ended up there.

I was wondering if you changed

the last name for

whatever reason it is.

I haven't changed my last name though.

Um, it's a tiny dog though.

It's a Yorkie, so it's always underfoot.

I'm like terrified.

I'm gonna step on it and I've got somebody
else that poops and pees in the floor.

Look at you man.

I'm at you.

Yeah, yeah.

Great, great.

Love it.

More responsibility is what I needed.

So who do we got going on here?

What's the topic?

Alright, so we have got a, uh,
an awesome guest today from

Charlotte, North Carolina.

I feel like, uh, we should have
done like a Bulls intro from

Charlotte, North Carolina, number 23.

No, um, I, I really, um, I
really enjoy the gentleman James.

Um, he is, uh, a, a great guy to talk to.

Uh, actually redid their
website, uh, earlier this year.

So that's how we first came into contact.

As I got to learn more about their
company, I was, I was pretty impressed.

Uh, they're not the average side shop.

There's a, a multifaceted, uh, we
will get into some of that, but,

um, yeah, let's bring 'em on.

All right, let's do it.

Alright guys, welcome back with our
special guest, James Neely of RP

Signs in Charlotte, North Carolina.

James, super nice to
have you on the podcast.

How are

you, sir?

Doing well.

Glad to be here.

Thanks for having me on guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you and I have had several
conversations before this.

Um, I was just telling Peter that
we redid the website for you guys.

Um, Gary over there was my main
contact, but, uh, really enjoyed the

conversations that we had, uh, where
you and your father were involved.

And, uh, you know, I think you
guys have a really cool story there

at rp, not the average side shop.

Um, a lot of different facets.

You guys work with a lot
of interesting clients.

Yeah.

Super excited to have you on.

So, for those who, who ha haven't
had conversations with you.

Why don't you tell us a little
more about yourself and RP signs?

So, I will be eventually be third
generation owner of the shop.

Our sister company started in 1984.

Uh, we are division of them
recognition, plus they do corporate

apparel, awards, et cetera.

And then in 86 was the, the birth
of the sign portion of our business.

Uh, we started getting some
calls from some doctors wanting

nameplates for their desks.

So at the time my father was in law
enforcement in South Carolina, so

he moved up to Charlotte and decided
to, uh, to start this sign business.

And it has done nothing but
grow since 86 until now.

And it's, it's been a wild ride.

Yeah.

Well I could say like starting out,
like I've seen some of the projects

that you guys do and it's a far
cry from just name plates now.

Yeah.

So, hey, tell us about the shop.

You know, like what kind of
projects do you guys take on,

you know, how big are you?

Give us, give us the full

scoop.

Yeah.

So we have, um, 19 people total on staff.

Uh, we got five project
managers, two graphic designers.

We have one graphic designer that
actually is gonna work as a PM

role as well, and he, he will
support our one and only sales guy.

Um, we have never had salespeople
before until this year.

It was our, this is our first sales guy
in, in 30 some odd years of business.

Wow.

Um, we have 20, roughly 20,000
square feet in Charlotte where

we do some light fabrication.

Um, we do all of our a DA signage
manufacturing in-house, flat

cut letter sets, um, digital
print, roll to roll flatbed.

And we just purchased A-A-D-C-S
printer that will allow us to

do, um, direct to substrate,
uh, tactile and braille signage.

Um, right now we run the applique.

Process here in the shop.

And we have one guy who's
just, he runs three lasers.

Oh, wow.

And in the, in the braille machine.

And he, he's, he's a wizard.

So we wanna keep him around for a while.

Hey, like,

what type of clients
do you guys work with?

A lot of, a lot of healthcare.

And that is kind of turned into a
lot of property then that like, helps

us diversify into property managers.

Because a lot of times these healthcare
facilities and clients that we

have, they have different clinics
in all kinds of different buildings.

So then the people are like, oh,
well who are you using for signage?

And then that kind of
goes, well, we use rp.

They can, I'm sure they can help you out.

So medical office buildings is
another big specialty of ours.

Full, full service, interior,
exterior signage, uh, design

permitting and fabrication.

We've started breaking into the retail
industry a little bit more here lately.

Hasn't been a super big focus of ours
for a long time, just because, I mean.

We pride ourselves in knowing how the
healthcare process works and taking the

pain out of that for, for our clients.

Um, because really signage is the
last thing they wanna think about.

They want to focus on building
a cancer research building and

not signs that go by a door.

So we take that out of that for them
and say, listen, hand it over to us.

We'll run stuff by you.

We'll keep your brand, um, but
just trust us and we'll, we'll

deliver when we say we will.

Gotcha.

And, and would

you guys say that is like a, is that
what make you, makes you guys unique?

Like why do these folks work with with rp?

Yeah, I mean, I really think
it's the, it's the process.

I mean.

And I'm

not trying to put the, the
screws to you or anything.

It is just a question that Pete and I love
to ask because we've asked so many owners

and, and like leaders in inside their
companies of like, Hey, where's the value?

Like, why would people
choose to work with you?

And, and you, I'm sure in
Charlotte, you guys are in a

super competitive market, right?

So what's the, the value
proposition for you guys?

I mean, I know a lot of people use
this as like a, a platform to jump off

of, but really like, if you come to
us, our customer service is, is going

to be what, what you come back for.

Everybody can promise you and provide you
a quality sign product, but if you come to

us, we're gonna take that process, we're
gonna make it as easy as possible for you.

And we're j we're gonna be hands on and
guide you through that so you don't have

to worry about what you'll get in the end.

I, I feel like w without that part.

It doesn't make you any
different than anybody else.

Um, there's a lot of, a lot of guys will
go jump on the big job and then leave

them abandoned for a couple signs on the,
on the backside, and that's really where

we pick up the slack is we, we promised
to be there in the future for you.

It's funny, just this past week we
had a customer call us for a sign, an

interior donor sign that we made for
them in 2004, and we still had a piece

of material in their customer box that we
could provide the same exact material and

the same exact sign as we did in 2004.

Wow.

I does that.

How did that Material Age

does it?

It is Corian, it's solid surface,
so it, it's been protected

inside, so it, it is fine.

Yep.

Uh, that's cool.

That's cool.

Uh, is is, I, I remember the days
of like reaching into the file

cabinet from the, the jobs from 10
years ago, but we often didn't have

material on hand from that long ago.

Yeah.

So, so I, as you mentioned, uh, you've
kind of grown up in the business.

All RP signs is a, a family business.

So, you know, kinda walk us through,
we've talked about the shop and the

business, like walk us through your own
individual journey inside the industry.

Yeah.

So, so my journey, like, I mean, I
started as a kid, I would catch duct

tape balls off of Extension Ladder
for my dad putting up Gemini Ladder

on the side of brick buildings.

But then as I, I grew, I mean, I did
the whole schooling, went through and,

and decided college wasn't for me about
six months into my college journey.

And then, so I was.

Well, JI just kn, I mean,
I knew what I was gonna do.

Like I just knew I'm gonna be a sign guy.

Like I've al I was always interested
in it with, with my father.

Um, so I was like, I'm going to school,
but I'm gonna be, I know I'm gonna

be a sign guy, so why can't I just
start being a sign guy right now?

So that was at eight 18 years old.

Um, so I've been, I started picking
at 18 years old, we moved into a

new building for the shop and I
was picking weeds off of a fence.

And so I started at the ground even
though it was, uh, even though it's

a family business, and then moved up
through some manufacturing in the,

uh, in the trophy area of the shop for
the, the other side of the business.

Progressed into being an
installer for our, our sign shop.

Uh, moved to the, being a laser
operator for a short time.

Then after that I moved as
an assistant project manager.

Then started taking on some of the
healthcare clients and then have moved

and then moved through the project
manager positions to where I am now

as director of project management.

So that's been 16 years.

So when I, so I'm 35 now, so I'll
have a lot of time in by the time

I'm ready to, to call it quits.

But I'm ex I'm just excited about
how, how I've had the opportunity

to see it all and move up.

I think it's gonna be very
valuable when, when the business

is handed over at some point.

Sure.

Uh, was there ever a time like growing
up, like you were always a hundred percent

like, Hey, I'm gonna be a sign guy.

Like, there was never a time of
like, ah, dude, if I have to go in

and like, help out in the shop and
sweep the floor and like, pick up

and do all this stuff, like I'm going
to, like, I'm just gonna go crazy.

Like, Hey, I gotta get
out and do something else.

Yeah.

You know, I can honestly say no.

Like, I, I have always enjoyed
being, being with my father.

Like I.

I used to hang around with him
all the time when I was little and

we would do everything together.

So it never really bothered me the thought
of coming to this place every day for

the rest of, for the rest of my career.

I mean, I just, I, I enjoy it.

I soak up every minute of it and
enjoy the people that I work with.

Wow.

Did you, what did you go to school for?

Uh, short time business management.

You do a lot

with a background in
business management, right?

Yes.

Yes.

You could,

you could also run a podcast.

That's what I got into things
without, and I'll tell you why.

P like I got in and I was like, Hey,
what am I gonna do after college?

I have no idea.

So I I Is this management baby?

Yep.

So, uh, you go ahead.

Yeah.

If you, if I, I, I want to kind
of just make a couple of comments,

uh, maybe a question or two here.

So you mentioned the size
of your business and that's.

Remarkably, uh, or a lot of people
would love to have a size operation

the way that you do, you know, with
project managers, a couple of designers,

I would assume that the majority of
your workers are in the production

and project management side of things.

But why don't you give us a little bit
of insight as to the thought process

behind why now with a salesperson.

That was, that was a major takeaway
for me, is that why today after

all of the accomplishments that you
have, are you theoretically bringing

on a new arm of your business?

Yeah.

You know, I, Pete, that's a
good, that's a good question.

I really take a look at that from, um, a
couple different viewpoints like we had.

I think, and I can honestly say, I
think for, for 30 some years we've

taken for granted the fact that
we have a referral network of just

people's word, word of mouth, from
customer to customer to customer.

Just that business being there
and just, it's always been there.

But as we all know, customers change, uh,
some times change a little bit, and I, I

just felt like in order to not have all
our eggs in one basket to diversify with

a, a salesperson to bring in some of the
work that maybe we wouldn't normally go

after or get, because I, I mean, it, it
definitely helps add to revenue and I just

feel like having that extra stream coming
in can kind of offset any fluctuations

in like a word of mouth referral or a
customer change or, um, just some, or

just, just competition in the market.

Um, there's, it's really
fierce around Charlotte.

There's a lot of, um, there's a lot
of different companies in the area,

so we really have to differentiate
ourselves from the others.

Okay.

And you feel like this is a, a pathway
forward to differentiate yourself?

Yeah, I mean, and just expand, expand
our offerings and maybe get us in

front of people that we haven't
been, been in front of before.

It's, it's not like it's gonna to solve
a major issue, but I definitely think

that it, it can help expand and get us
out in different markets that we haven't

really focused on or touched in the past.

What's gonna be your process

in, in your mind, you bring on
this person, it's an he's an ideal

salesperson, maybe a little bit of
knowledge and aspects of this industry.

What, what, what's gonna be your
process by which to dispatch

that person out into the market?

Is it a self-reliant person to bring
in business, or is there gonna be more

appointments being scheduled, uh, you
know, a rolling showcase or what's,

what's your process and how that
person is going to differentiate and

bring some awareness to the market?

Yeah, so I think, um, we're gonna, he's
gonna have sales, uh, material and stuff

that he's gonna be able to take with
him and like present to, to general

contractors and, and, um, and different
developers and real estate companies.

I, and just getting somebody
out there, just a face for us

out in, into the, the market.

'cause of a lot of what we did, like
I said, was just like referral stuff.

So we kind of, in our OI mean, we got
five project managers in our office.

We manage our projects from here.

We do go on client meetings like
everybody else does, but like to see

somebody, like a recurring face out in
the market, visiting people and talking

about signage and projects, I think
it's just a different, a different

approach than we've had before.

So I think that will kind of help ramp
that up and just, and to get his feet

wet, I'll, I'll go on sales meetings
with him and kind of coach him along

the way and, and get him up and running.

Okay.

Are you guys like gonna put him on like
a, a totally different industry, like

outside of healthcare or, uh, property
management, you know, contractors, or is

it like a double down on, on existing?

No, it's, it's really
gonna be different market.

I think what I would like to see, of
course, when he gets, when he gets

up and running a, a real focus on
multi-family projects and developments.

I just, there's an article in July of
this year that more than 80 people a day

moved to Charlotte, to the Charlotte area.

I.

And, and I mean, you can't a day,
well, 80 people a day, you can't

turn a corner without seeing an
apartment complex under construction.

So I know there's more apartment
complexes than our sign companies.

So to, to capitalize on that market
would be, would be fantastic.

Charlotte's one of my

favorite cities in the country, and for
those of you, for those that know me, I,

I visit frequently to the Charlotte area.

So what, what part of the
Charlotte market are you

guys servicing?

We, I mean, gosh, we
cover on a daily basis.

Anywhere from Yeah.

Fort Mill, South Carolina, which is
just into South Carolina from Charlotte.

And then, we'll, I mean, we'll go
up to Hickory and, and Morganton

area towards the mountains.

Wow.

Um, yeah, and we go,
I mean, go to Raleigh.

No kidding.

Couple, couple times a month.

Um, so we're our guys, our guys
stay on the road pretty well.

Yeah, I mean that you could be on
hours on, uh, 4 85 just between

Fort Mill and, and more victory and
where up there on the north side.

I mean, gosh, that's, I, I've been
in that traffic and I don't, I

don't recommend it, uh, to anybody.

Um, but that's impre, you know,
that's, that's something that's a

very large organization and a very
large area of which you're covering,

especially when you're venturing off
to the, to the east and going into

the Raleigh market, I would assume
you're going into Greensboro as well.

Yeah, Greensboro, Cary Chapel Hill.

Um, yeah, we're, we're pushing.

I mean, we cover, we'll send our
guys to anywhere in the state.

I mean, it, it doesn't really
bother us and we really, we've

positioned ourselves, I feel like,
well, naturally being in Charlotte,

we can cover the whole Southeast.

Um, I've, I've got a client that
is going through an expansion and

we're, um, we've gone to Alabama.

Florida, Georgia, South Carolina,
North Carolina, Virginia for them.

So it's, we can run the whole
corridor if you, if you need us to.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, that's,
that's amazing to hear.

That's a, that's a very large service
area, so that's, I guess you have the

means to take on that kind of work
because I could certainly see a lot

of downtime and travel if you are not
charging for those, uh, types of leads.

So let's get back to the point here.

I was just curious because, um, I wanted
to kinda get a picture of where, what size

your business is and what your service
area is, but it does kind of sound like

you're taking over the entire Charlotte
market, maybe even into the South

Carolina border there a little bit too.

So, okay.

Now you've been in this business now
for what I think you, you called it,

uh, what generations, is that correct?

Did I, did I use the

right term?

Yeah, so my grandfather's first
generation owner, my mom is now

owner majority, so then it'll be,
it'll be me and my sister after this.

After

this.

Okay.

So the businesses in your
family's name, right?

Right.

It's, it's been, you guys have been
in this market for a long time.

A lot of the businesses know
maybe your mom or maybe your,

your grandfather before her.

And you guys are doing
a lot of business now.

The thought here is, is that you
bring on this salesperson, right?

And you have a little bit of a plan
for, for the type of customer that you

want and the and, and the, and the, um,
the approach by which you want to go

after that type of client, but Sure.

Is that your only new business
acquisition strategy, or is, are

there others that you're also planning

around?

Uh, right now, that's the focus.

Um, that's our, that's our
big focus is to get a sales.

Some kind of sales structure up and
running, I think for, for a long time.

Like I said, we've taken for granted
the fact that business has kind

of just come to us organically
and we, we've earned the business

through providing for other people.

But, but I think at some point you gotta,
you have to stop resting on those laurels

and then, and move to a more aggressive
strategy, which a sale, I thought a

salesperson was the logical first step.

And then we kind of see how that business
development takes place and we can

venture off from there to other avenues.

Okay.

Very

interesting.

Like, you guys work with like, primarily
like the healthcare systems, right?

I, I know like a, a, a ton of owners that
we talk to would, would die to be in good

with the healthcare systems because as a,
you know, depending on the products you

sell, steady stream of work, um, oh yeah.

I would say, you know, hey, there's
probably some budget conscious.

Elements there, but you know, for the most
part, probably not more concerned about

like, timelines and, and, and actually
getting like deadlines and project

delivery more so than, than budget.

So you're not holding up like a new wing
of the hospital waiting on the signage.

Right.

But hey, like, how, like, like you said,
you mentioned you take those for granted.

How, like, how did you guys
originally get into that market?

Do you know, like, well, is that
something that's always been there,

like since, since you were young or?

Yeah, so our first shop was actually
right across the street from the

biggest hospital in Charlotte.

So that's their, so that's how
naturally they came over and were

like, Hey, I need a nameplate.

So that mean we, we literally could walk
across the street and be at the front door

of, of the hospital and we would deliver
the products because we were so close.

So, and other guys
wouldn't, wouldn't do that.

So, I mean, we were like,
Hey, we'll bring it to you.

We'll walk we'll across the
street and we'll be right there

for you and we'll give it to you.

And that just kind of, that kind of was
the, the foundation of that relationship.

The, just the personal connection.

And then we kind of just
took it to the next level.

And that's how, that's how it started.

And I mean, at first they would
ask us for illuminated signage.

We, we didn't even know
what that was at one point.

And we would say, yeah,
we'll take care of it.

And then we came back
and we figured it out.

True side guys.

Hey, we need this.

Do you guys do that?

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah, we do.

Yeah, yeah.

Absolutely.

We'll figure it out, guys.

Yep.

Uh, I think a

lot of our listeners would laugh
or chuckle if they're driving in

their cars or if they're listening
on their phones or whatever.

They would look and be like,
I've done that a million times.

So you're not alone.

I, I've done that.

I know Bryan's done that, and
I know many of our, of our

clients have also, I still do

that sometimes, man.

I'll figure it out.

Sure.

Yeah.

It's, um, yeah, really good

stuff.

Really good stuff.

I, I like that you, uh, go after, you
know, your, your type of clientele,

but you've been doing it for so long.

Right.

So tell us a little bit about
before the salesperson, what

the, what the approach has been.

Like, what's the, what's been

the.

What's, this is what I want to get into.

What's the secret sauce, man?

What's, what's the, what's your secret?

How do you last this long with
three generations, or almost three

generations and, and, you know, live
in a world without a salesperson?

What is your trick?

What is,

what is it?

Yeah.

I mean, I hate to name drop here,
but I kind of think of us like a,

a Chick-fil-A of sign companies.

I mean, it's like, it's our people.

It's, it's the way we,
we pour into our people.

We, we develop them to, to
treat our customers the way

that, that we always have.

We, we ask them to buy in to our,
our level of care, our commitment to

our customers, and, and just really
just, just buy into the system.

Like we we're here to make money.

Yes.

But we really want to take care of
people and, and I just feel like I.

Other people look for that
in a, in a place to work.

It's not just like a, a carousel
of people running through here.

The majority of our people have been
with us for over 12 to 15 years.

We've even got some people that
have been here the whole 36 years.

Um, so I think it's the way we
are intentional with our people

and just ask them to care for our
customers the way that we always

have and they buy into that system.

Okay.

Could

you give us like a specific,
like does a specific example or

a specific story come to mind?

Um,

not, I, I'm sure you've got one or two.

Yeah.

I'm trying to think
off the top of my head.

It, you know, it really just like, I mean
we were doing a project for a healthcare

organization here in, uh, in Charlotte.

They were opening a medical school.

And they came to us four weeks
before the medical school opened

and said, Hey, we need designs.

We need, we need designs, we
need approvals, we need signs

on the outside of this building.

Before they had the ribbon
cutting in four weeks.

Hmm.

And back then, back then we, we
had one graphics guy and that

was, that was Gary back then.

He was on vacation.

So then my, I guess my father outta
desperation reached out to Gary

on vacation, was like, dude, can
you please do me some drawings?

We've gotta take care of
this for the customer.

And, and Gary did his drawings
and, and he made it happen.

They approved it, manufactured
and installed by the ribbon

cutting in the four weeks.

And it was a high-rise install.

I,

yeah, that's not a.

Signed guy job.

Yeah.

And I mean, I just, and it's, we will
do that for, we'll do that for anybody.

Like, I mean with within reason.

Of course we don't like sell, Hey, we're,
we're gonna do everything for you quick.

Like, that's just not, this was, this was

an existing client that you already had?

Yes, it was an existing client that
we had a relationship with, but that's

just how we care for our customers.

And we, we strive to develop those
relationships with everybody.

Um, and I guess that's why we hadn't
focused on like a lot of retail

signage in the past is because that
relationship kind of, you go to

somebody in a strip mall, you sell 'em
a sign, and then you kind of move on.

And that just, that hasn't
been the way we operated.

So that wasn't really a, like
a focus, but I'd like to bring

that level of relationship to
that, to that sign experience.

Yeah.

Uh, what is, so you guys do a, a, a
ton of a DA, there's a, there's a lot

of smaller shop owners that we talk
to that it's like a mystery box of

like, like, Hey, I, I know this could
be a good avenue for us, but hey,

like, I, I don't know much about it.

Like, how, you know, how do,
how should I get into it?

Do I even want to get into it?

Right?

Like, what do, what do those
projects look like for you guys?

I mean, they're, they're, a lot of our
projects are full packages, like, so

it'll be a new office building and we,
we go from design conception all the

way through the manufacturing process.

So we'll sit down with designers and
work, uh, work through their finish

plans and, and come up with a couple sign
types and drawings for them to approve.

Um, and then, I mean, we just, we've
got people in place that know the,

the regulations, the processes, and it
just is really seamless for us because

we've been doing it for so long.

Um, a lot of.

It's intimidating to a lot of people,
um, just because there's so, there's

so many nuances to the a DA guides
and, and just compliance issues.

Um, there's also a decent amount of
equipment that's involved with, with doing

it, but we've even gotten to the point to
where we have become a wholesale source

for some other companies to provide them
a DA signs because they want to take,

they wanna bring that revenue stream
in, but don't have any way to do it.

So they turn to us and know
that we'll just take care of

them and we provide it to 'em.

Gotcha.

So

I like you, you actually
have like a wholesale to the

trade wing or arm as well.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yep.

That makes a lot of sense.

Um, you know, we're huge advocates
of, of outsourcing stuff that,

that you don't bring value to the
table on or, you know, that that's

not necessarily your specialty.

Sure.

Um, but like when do clients
bring you into those projects?

Is it, I.

Mean, is it typically at the, at
the end, is it like, Hey, four

weeks, like here's the building.

Like we're, we're finishing construction
now we need signs for everything,

or is it like sooner in the process?

Like who are you working with?

Like a lot of inside the
client's organization?

Yeah.

A lot of times we're like, in
their organization, we're working

with their development people.

So when they have something on the
horizon, they'll reach out and just say,

Hey, we've got this project coming up.

Keep it on your radar.

I'll reach out when timing's more, um,
appropriate, uh, for these activities.

But really, and we've worked
with these same architects in,

in construction companies before,
so it's kind of like, hey.

We need to engage rp 'cause we're
gonna need signage down the road.

So we do, we do have customers
that, that keep us in mind early

in the process, which is nice.

Um, but that doesn't mean there's not
gonna be a, a ball dropped every now

and again and us have to come in on the
backside and, and make something happen.

But yeah, we tried to, we've tried
to educate our customers and, and

how long the process takes so that
they're aware of that and they can

build that into their, their schedules.

Gotcha.

And like, you know, you mentioned this
other project was like four weeks,

but like start to finish, like what is
like the average a DA project kind run

for this?

Um, I mean, if you're looking like
around a hundred, 180 a signs, I mean,

we could probably push that out in about
15 business days is what is like average.

I mean, the bigger the project, the longer
we can get is always better, of course.

But like when you, like, if you need just
like a sweet sign insert or something

for a medical office building, our
average lead time for, that's like five

to seven business days and we'll get
it installed or shipped, shipped out.

Gotcha.

And like, can we ask numbers?

Like what, what do you guys do sales wise?

So our, our best year, which
was a year ago, was 5 million.

Okay.

Um, it fluctuates based on, I mean,
that was, that was a good year

based on a, a really long rebranding
campaign that we had embarked on.

Um, so it, it fluctuates based on what,
what's happening in the, in the healthcare

industry and, and just across the board.

But yeah, I mean, I, on average between
three and 5 million is a year for us.

Gotcha.

That's.

It's pretty solid.

Like I know that, yeah.

A ton of shops would, that we talked to
would love to be at three to 5 million.

Like, Hey, what, what is the, the
rough profitability on Aada a signage?

Is it, is it, oh gosh, is it worth
the, is it worth the squeeze?

Or like, at the end of the day,
like, are there, like, you guys

get done with the average project?

Do you look back and you're like, this
was a, this was a win for the client?

Obviously it was a win for
us as a business though.

Yeah, no, I definitely think, I definitely
think that it's a, it's a profitable,

it's a profitable section of our business.

Um, it, but you're also, you're,
you're offering a service that's

very unique that a lot of public
organizations can't function without.

I mean, you can't get
inspections without aada a signs.

So there's, there's a level of
have to, with a d, a signage that

if you bring that to the table, I.

Then we can help you succeed as well.

Um, and it doesn't hurt that we
will design something to tie in

with your building and make it look
elegant and, and it's not just your

standard Home Depot, black and white
restroom sign stuck on the wall.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Got it.

Um, what was I gonna ask?

Like, the a DA stuff is, is definitely
very interesting to me just because

like back in the old days when I ran
the shop, we, we didn't do a DA signage.

And, and for me it was like, I, I
see this, I know people who are doing

it, like what's actually involved.

But it, like, for you guys, it is probably
like more than the actual production.

It, it is like a service offering more
than just like the signage, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, we, it's, we'll take it, we
will take your plans, we'll tell you

what you need, where you need it.

Um, so it's a consultative approach as
well as an educational approach saying,

and then we kinda weave in the way
finding with, with the a DA packages.

So, um, it all, it all starts
as the customer is the ba,

like the, the starting point.

How can we educate our customers and,
and let them know this is a service

we offer, this is how it can help you
and we'll take care of it for you.

So we, but we go from
design to to creation.

So I mean, nothing, what, nothing we

don't

do.

Where, where, where does estimating
like come into the process?

So right after, typically we throw out
like a handful of designs to the customer

based on their, like a finished schedule
for a facility that they're moving into.

And then we generate some
ideas and kind of have them.

Narrow those down.

Um, and then once we provide, they have
a concept that they like, then we kind

of give them a, a, a price per unit.

And then if they, if they see that price
and need to value engineer, then we can

kind of back out some different things
to, to help that process for them.

But we don't, yeah.

So we kind of give them design
first before we can provide budgets.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I imagine like it, depending on like
the number of layers of materials you're

using and, you know, placement size.

Yeah.

All of that goes into, yeah.

I mean,

people come to me and go,
Hey, can you get an eight?

Can you gimme a price
on an eight by 10 sign?

Well, yeah, but what, I mean, what do you
like, there's a million different things

I do.

It doesn't mean anything.

Yeah.

Right.

Yep.

So, so like everything is quoted per sign.

Do you guys have like project
management fees and like

installations tacked on top of that?

Or is like, Hey, that's
part of what we provide.

It's like, Hey, you need a
hundred of these signs for

150 bucks a sign or whatever.

We'll, design, manage,
install, do all of that.

Yeah.

So we break, we break all that out so
that on our, on our like proposals to

our customers, it's all broken out.

Um, typically like if we go through
design and the customer, the

customer approves the project we go
through, it's kind of like just, we

consider that part of the process.

So it's never, it's not a
line item on their quote.

We just consider that cost,
cost of business with that,

that, um, that portion.

Um, but install, yeah,
we'll look at drive time.

We separate all that out based
on location of the customer.

How many signs, difficulty of mounting
the signs, depending on what they are.

So, yeah.

But if we do like strictly on
consultation, like if an architect

calls us, says, Hey, we need
you to develop a sign package.

Of course we charge for, for all that.

There is, there is a fee for
our time for that, even if we

don't manufacture the package.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

And, and to me that seems like
almost like the, the most valuable

part of the process, right?

Is the knowledge you guys bring to the

table.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That just correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah.

Just to let somebody know that, listen,
this may be daunting to you, but if you

partner with us on this, we can walk
you through the whole thing and it'll

be, we'll make it as simple as possible.

It's kind of, it

kinda like the accountant thing, right?

Like I, I know the basics of finance,
but like I do, I want to put my

own knowledge on the line that I
don't get audited by the IRS or,

or have some other consequences.

I, I definitely

don't, yeah.

If I, if I take over, first thing
I'm doing is hiring full, full

scale accountant to do every bit
of, every bit of information I got.

Uh, hey, so what's a, like, we've had
people on the podcast that like, have,

have grown up in family businesses, they
work with their wives type of thing.

Like, what is it, what's it, what's
it like working in a family business?

Like, do you, do you have disagreements
with your, your mom and your dad?

Is your grandpa still in the business?

Um, my grandpa is retired.

What's the, what's the dynamic?

I.

So grandfather's retired.

My, my, my mom focuses on the, um,
the award side of the business.

Like she, she's over that
sector of the business.

So my father runs the signage part.

Um, so working with him, it is been,
it's been fun, but it's also been hard.

Um, he and I don't see eye to
eye on next steps a lot of times,

like hiring a sales guy per se.

Um, okay.

But, but I, I thought it was important
enough and I, uh, pestered the piss

out of him enough to, to where he
was finally like, all right, we'll

give this, we'll give this a try.

Like, let's, let's do
this thing and we'll see.

We'll see how it goes.

So, yeah, my sister's a
senior project manager here.

So I mean, we all work well together.

Uh, we definitely have our disagreements.

There's also non-family people
here, so we kind of keep those

disagreements behind a closed door.

So nobody, nobody needs
to worry about their job.

It,

so it's not super awkward.

Like what is it like at
Thanksgiving dinner with the family?

Like do you guys, do you guys try to turn
like the business side of it off or is

it like a lot of folks where it's just
like, we talk signage all day, every day,

man, you took the, you
took the words right

with like Christmas
right around the corner.

I kind of wanna know what
like Christmas dinner is going

to feel like with you guys.

Like do you talk shop?

Do you argue about projects
like how long that took?

You gotta carved a Turkey now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Thanksgiving we, we get together with
my grandfather and grandmother, and he's

the one who started the business, so
he likes to talk about it because he's

not really around that much anymore.

Christmas if we try to talk about it.

We're mostly at my mother and
father's house, so our, my mom

will be like, y'all need to stop
talking about business right now.

We got, this is, we're,
we're closed for a reason.

Um, so we, we try to shut it off
as much as possible, but it's

a disease that we all suffer
from, and that's signs 24 7, so.

Okay.

Got it.

Like, have, have you already
like, discussed transition

plans, uh, or things like that?

Or you're not at that stage yet?

Not at that stage yet.

Um, but it's never too early
for a, a plan to, to start.

Um, that's actually one of my next steps
on my list is like, Hey, let's round up

everybody that needs to talk about this
and let's start working on a, a plan.

Uh, because I mean, as you guys
know, the years just speed by.

So before long, it'll, it'll
be time and we need to have

a plan and be ready for that.

Yeah, I, and I,

I, and I think that's a, like the
transition or, or like handing down,

we, we've got a lot of folks in
our community that are, are nearing

retirement age and like, so is the kids
want nothing to do with the business.

Right.

And at that point it's
like, what do we do?

You know, like I always just assumed I was
gonna hand this down to the kids and, you

know, it's kind of a, a sticky situation.

Uh, right.

And then there's other folks like that
are in your position where like, you're

coming up, you're gonna take over the
business and the not so distant future,

like managing that transition I can
imagine is, I, I like, if you don't do

it well, it's, it very detrimental to
your own health, mental health and to the

business as well, like, yeah, absolutely.

Do you guys like, what, what's the average
age of like all your employees now?

Or like, are you guys, I.

Um, do you have a lot of employees
nearing retirement age as well, or

no, not, not really.

I mean, we've got, we've got a good mix
of, of young and, and seasoned I'll say.

I mean, we've got probably a handful
that are close to retirement, but

we've, we definitely have some, some
younger people that'll, that'll lord

willing continue to, to work here.

Um, even up through the transition
point in eight or 10 years, I, I think

we've kind of positioned ourselves well
in that respect to where we've kind

of balanced our workforce to where we
wouldn't be totally without, you know?

Yeah.

Well, I, I, just in general, I think
that's a concern of mine, you know,

as a a, as like, we, we all get older,
you know, and, and the industry is

like, if you've been in the industry,
you can't get away from it, right?

But Right.

How do we attract new people, a that.

They're willing to invest the
time necessary to actually do the

job, to the level it requires.

Right?

Yeah.

It, it's not like you can bring
anybody off the street and within,

you know, three weeks have them up and
running and, and actually producing

a DA signage or managing a project.

Right.

Sure.

It's just not possible.

Sure.

And especially too, like I, somebody told
me a stat the other day was, by 20 28,

50 2% of the workforce is gonna be Gen Z.

And that scares me to death.

Like, because you just don't, you
just don't know what you're gonna get.

I mean, right.

Do do you wanna work?

Well, if you wanna work, do
you wanna work in a sign shop?

Do you wanna get in a crane truck?

Do you wanna, I mean, I, I was born
into a sign business pretty much,

and I didn't even really think about
signs for half of, I mean, half of my.

Career, like growing up, like I was just
like, I didn't really think about it

until I was immersed in it, you know?

So, I mean, people drive by signs every
day and it's like, almost like they don't

exist, you know, until they, they need it.

Yeah.

Right.

And now it's like you drive by
and you're like, Hey honey, honey.

Like we, we did that one.

We did this one.

Yep.

And she's like, enough already.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Well, um, like we've covered a lot,
like, you know, we've already touched on

like what it's like inside the business.

You know, we, looking at my notes
here, like inside the market, you know,

one question that I do have is, is
like, you know, you mentioned getting

the people to buy into the business
and into like the ethos, but like.

That's one thing.

Right.

But keeping somebody around 20 plus
years is like a totally different thing,

especially in today's climate, like Sure.

Is there, is there any advice you
could give to, to somebody else?

Because like, one of the biggest
challenges, if you ask anybody inside,

like the better sign shop community,
like the Facebook group we have

for owners, I can't find good help.

I can't keep good help.

Like how, how have you guys managed to
keep people around for 15, 20 years?

Is it, Hey, you pay more than most you.

I, I feel like that's,
there's more to it than that,

right?

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

And there's always somebody too that's
gonna offer more money than you just

because if they find, like, if they're,
they're after people, they're gonna be

like, oh, I'll throw more money at 'em.

But I mean really like, because
the people we have, that's the

reason we can do what we do.

Um, I just, I.

I don't, I don't know how to word it
without saying the same thing over

and over again, you know, but I just,
like, our people are important to us.

Like we wanna take care of
them like they are our family.

And I think that that creates
an environment that makes

them comfortable working here.

And, and they, and they
stick around for it.

It's not, I mean, it's not for lack
of, of, there's mistakes that are made

and we, we cross those bridges when we
get to 'em with, with whoever it is.

But we're not gonna, we
understand mistakes happen.

We're not gonna beat you
over the head about it.

We, we treat people how
we wanna be treated.

I mean, it's, it just boils
down to that simple thing.

For me, it's just getting the people
on our team that have the same kind of

value and outlook that we do that can
make us function together and continue

to provide good service to our customers.

So like, if I'm hearing you, it's.

Like, just to parrott it back to you,
is it basically the culture that you

guys have instilled at the company?

Yeah.

I, I, yeah.

I think the, I think
culture's a big thing.

Um, and just being honest, just doing
what we say we're gonna do with our

customers and if, and the mistakes
made, own up to it and fix it and,

and then that will make you look, look
great as well, the way you respond to

adversity, um, as opposed to like kicking
under the rug or just disappearing.

Talk about your

culture for just a quick second.

Um, I love that you said that, and
I love that you recognize that it's

a major component to your success.

Um, but are you, is your team full
of members that buy in or are there

a couple of bad eggs that, you
know, you have to work through and

massage around?

Right, right now at this time we have, I.

The most solid team that
we've had in our history.

We had some people leave,
um, not too long ago.

Well, it's been a while now, but it was
a little resistant to that and didn't

just, yeah, just didn't really fit in
that we're kind of not the communicative

type to, to foster that team environment.

And it just, it was kind of like walking
on eggshells around a couple of them,

but they're, they're no longer here.

But I feel like now we've, we've
set up a team to where everybody

feels a part of the team and
wants to be a part of that team.

Yeah.

You mentioned communication, like do you
guys have any, like, specific protocols

or, or like anything like, you know,
are you doing like one-on-one meetings

with your, your project managers?

Do you guys have like team
meetings, like, you know Yeah.

Kinda.

What's the dynamic there?

I.

Yeah, that's a, that's a
good, that's a good question.

Um, so I do one-on-one meetings with
every project manager and Des and the

two designers the first Monday of every
month to kind of get the state of the

union of what they're like working on.

But my door is always open and they know
they can, they can come to me whenever

they have a question and, and see that.

And in production, we have a, um, a
daily standup that is at three o'clock

before shift is over at three 30.

Um, for our in-house production
team, um, we kind of go through what

was accomplished, what orders may
be coming up that they need to know

about, and what kind of installs we're,
we're setting up for the next day.

So our installers know what
they're, what they're gonna go

out and do, uh, in the morning.

Um, because they roll out between,
uh, 7 15, 7 30, um, in the morning.

So we like to have that time at the
end of the previous day to kind of

let them know what they're up to.

Gotcha.

On on those one-On-ones, like
what's the, what do you guys

focus on?

Uh, I try to give them
the most time to talk.

Like just if they wanna talk about
their family, talk about your family.

If you, and then give, we'll
talk about Project Rundown, um,

and kind of get just, just the
status of what they're working on.

And if they can take more work, they
let me know that and I can, I can

take projects that come in and send
them to them and just, it's just kind

of like a, a feedback kind of area.

Like, Hey, are they struggling with
something that they need my help with?

Or if, if they just need more, need
more detail on a project or, or

need a project to, to follow up when
they're about to finish, I'm so,

I'm so glad to hear you say that, man.

Like a one-on-ones for me,
when I was managing a team.

The most effective thing that I had in,
in my arsenal as a manager was like a

building that relationship with the team
and, and just giving space like, hey, if

they wanted to talk about their family or
what they've got going on, that's fine.

Like, you've got 15, 20 minutes and
then like, we'll take the next 15,

20 minutes to talk about work in the
future and, and what's coming up.

But, uh, so many people that I talked
to overlook that I was like, you

know, that's the, I think that's like
a, a, a really strong foundation for

like the culture and, and like your
people, you gotta have that, that

relationship, right, because that's,
that's the capital that everybody's

operating from inside the shop, right?

Yeah.

Right.

If you've got that relationship, you
could come to somebody and say, Hey, I,

you know, this one didn't go really well.

Like, there were some
mistakes that were made.

I'm not worried.

I trust you.

Like I I know next time
it, it will be different.

Right?

Right.

Yeah.

I think that's the important thing is
like that just building that foundation

with our, our people on our team is
like, listen, we, we care about you.

Um, not only because you work here and
you, you're part of the team, but like,

how is stuff outside of, um, of the shop?

Can we help you?

Can we help you move?

Like, are you moving?

Do we need to, do we need to send
a van over there to help you if

you're gonna bind or, or something.

I mean, it's just whatever we
can do for our people to make

their work life and their life
easier, we'll, we'll do our best.

Awesome.

Um, James, any other advice?

Like, you've got kind
of a, a soapbox here.

Are there, is there any topics
or any, anything you'd like

to share with the audience?

Um,

you know, big thing for me is
just, just do what you say.

I mean, I think that's the, one of
the biggest things is like, if you're

gonna promise something to somebody,
make sure you follow through on it.

Just, just because not only should you be
doing that, but that as a, as a business

person, that'll take you far and beyond
what, what just saying I can provide

you a good product will, will take you.

Um, and just, just be in there for
your customers and ready to answer

the call when they need your help.

Whether it be a long
lead time or in a pinch.

Um, just show up for 'em.

Um, fight for 'em if
they, if they need to be.

I mean, if you're, if they're
running to a tough situation and

you, you can add your expertise to
the situation and help guide them.

Yeah.

I feel like that's 80% just showing up
and doing what you say you're gonna do.

Yep.

Uh, it is difficult though,

honestly.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, especially when you have so
many different customers that you

want to give that same attention to.

Sometimes they do, others suffer.

Um, but you gotta be prepared to, to
pick up that ball and run with it.

Awesome.

Um, we, we've talked about the, like
you're hiring the sales rep already, but

what's the, we asked this to everybody.

What's, what's the future for you?

What's the future for the business?

You know, what do you see
happening in the industry?

That's always an interesting

one as well.

Yeah.

I'd, I'd love to see how a, I mean,
I know people are real hot on AI

right now, but like, future of
the industry, how is AI gonna play

into, uh, just signage in general?

Like, I'm just super
interested to see that.

I never really considered that part of.

Like our business, but I'm, it
can be filtered in wherever.

Um, but next steps for
us is like a business.

I really wanna see the sales guy flourish
and just, and, and being able to measure

that success, um, to see him go out
there and, and pick up different markets.

Um, I'm excited for that.

Uh, but then also to see how, like, when
we start developing our transition plan,

what that looks like 10 years from now.

Because I'm trying to, like, as director
of project management, I only, I have

my own team and projects, but I want
to start working on the business as

well and building that for when the
transition occurs, as opposed to just

working in the business all the way
up, up to it, and then like quitting

cold Turkey because that, that really
would establish the transition.

Right, right.

It's a, a major challenge for
a lot of folks that we talk to.

Like getting out of that mindset
of like, Hey, I'm knee deep in

projects all day, versus like, what
is the, the strategy side of it?

You know, what's, what's
the future for the business?

Where do we need to point things
to go the right direction?

Pete, any closing shots?

Any final questions for
James before we let him go?

There's a couple of shots.

Pop.

I deserve it.

Probably.

Listen, I think you've got a really
great organization going on here.

I love that your men in, the people on
your team, your breathing, integrity,

honesty, being men and women of
high integrity is a big part of

establishing that baseline culture.

Uh, but one of the things that
are for me, that culture, I.

As a whole, you know, if we're
looking at, uh, the C word, I know

people like to throw it around very
loosely and they think that they have

a culture and they think that they,
you know, the way that they do things

is the way that their culture is.

But to me it breaks, I break
culture down into four key areas.

Okay?

So the first is, I call
it the best culture.

Uh, so that's an acronym
for B is becoming better.

So my first question, and let me
get through it here for just a quick

second, is, uh, becoming better.

What are you doing to, as an
organization at the ownership level,

at the employee level of what are
your employees doing to become better?

Okay.

The second piece is exceeding
the expectations, which I think

you've talked a lot about here.

Um.

That you have your own foundational
ways of taking what a traditional

experience is for a customer and
really going above and beyond that.

So there's another foundational
pillar that I look at and say, wow,

this guy's really got it going on.

The next is providing superior service.

So that's your product, not
your, the way you talk to your

client, that's your product.

So I would assume that you guys all have
to buy into a great product that you're

distributing and then doing so as a team.

Okay.

So the, the, the last part of
best is doing it as the teamwork.

So what cultural elements are you bringing
to become better and to improve your bond

as a team?

Yeah, I, I, um, I think
something for us now, I.

To become better is embracing new
technology just and, and educating

our team on that new technology.

Um, and what we can off
different offerings that we

can give to our customers.

Um, like I said, we, we purchased
that new direct color systems.

Um, a DA printer I think is
really gonna kind of revolutionize

and has the a DA game.

Um, it just provides so many more
opportunities of, of different signage

that you can offer to, to client bases.

Um, so, and, and leadership,
just taking those, taking

those steps to be open to that.

'cause I know there's a lot of,
um, companies with, with leadership

that're kind of stuck in the
ways that things used to be done.

And it's just like, we're gonna live and
die by weeded and vinyl and applying it to

an aluminum panel and as opposed to doing
a flatbed print or, um, stuff like that.

So I think just having.

Leadership that's willing to listen
to, to steps we need to take to, to

improve our game and kind of still keep
ourselves at the top of the, the top

of the scale as far as sign companies.

And,

and if they don't listen, then
you just aggravate the piss

out of 'em, as I heard you say.

Yep.

And

then, and then they, and then they do it.

Uh, it is strange how effective that is.

I, I, that's how it works
for me at home anyway.

Yeah.

And I think too, like, and it
being the person I'm talking to

boast about is my, is my father.

'cause he's, I mean, I report,
I pretty much report to him.

So it's kind of like, Hey, listen,
I've said this about six times.

I really think we should do this.

Okay, fine.

All right, we'll look, we'll
look at it kind of thing.

So he.

When, when he finds something that
I'm passionate about and I, I won't

let it die, he, he understands it.

It's, let's take a serious look at this
and just see how it could benefit, uh,

the organization and our team overall.

Yeah.

No, that's great.

James.

Man, thank you.

This has been a great conversation.

I, I, I knew it would be a good one.

I, I really enjoyed it.

Thanks for having you on, man.

Uh, everybody can find you
[email protected], you know?

Hey, like, are you, if anybody reaches
out, are you open to chatting to

other owners that may be listening?

Yeah, absolutely.

Um, if just any questions in general,
a DA signage questions, if you want us

to help you make some signs and ship
'em to your shop, we'll do that too.

Whatever anybody wants
to talk about, I'm open.

I've, I've really tried to, to do
that and expand myself in that way.

Like, moving more into leadership is
just being available for people when they

need to talk, what doesn't matter really
what it is, but we'll be glad to help.

Yeah.

So like, if

you're listening, you're looking for like
a wholesale provider for Aada, a signage.

James has, has stated that,
uh, they do a wholesale work.

Um, and if, if you're like me and you have
no clue about it, I'm sure they would be

willing to, to lend some time to educate
you and help you sell that as well.

Um, so Awesome James.

Super glad to have you on, man.

I appreciate you joining.

Hopefully we can come back and
do this again sometime soon.

Absolutely.

Thanks Bryant.

See you Pete.

See you

James.

Alright, so we've wrapped
the conversation with James.

I.

Pete, should we get into
rapid fire takeaways?

Man, I, I really enjoyed the conversation.

I, I think we've, for me there's a,
a few things, but I'm gonna hit you.

Yeah.

Rapid fire takeaways, man.

So, first and foremost, I think it's,
I great for our listeners to know that

there are seasoned shops out there that
have been doing this for a very long

time without an, an outside sales force.

And that even a seasoned shop like that,
uh, that specialize in a, in a specific

type of five, $5 million
without a sales rep, right?

Yeah.

That, that, that's,
that's mind blowing to me.

I mean, I would think that, you know,
I've been around 5, 6, 10, $12 million

signed businesses that have large
accounts like they do, they have large

accounts, but they're only getting
those large accounts because of an

outside sales force I've never heard of.

Somebody reaching that kind of
plateau without having somebody

the be the face of the business,

somebody that's without
beating the drum man.

Yeah.

And that, that's, that's remarkable.

But I do think that that is the
exception to the rule still.

It's, it was important for us to get
him on here to talk through like how

your, your $5 million approach is very
similar to a lot of sign shop's approach.

And he's gonna have some, you
know, I, I don't doubt it.

I think he's gonna have some
struggles finding that right

candidate like we all do.

I hope that, but I, but I, but
I'm confident that they have

the infrastructure in place.

They talked about culture, so
I'm confident that they have the

culture in place that that person.

Will be able to be retained, uh, uh,
and they're not gonna have like an

endless revolving door of signs shop
salespeople coming in and out of, you

know, his business and, uh, and, and
allowing it for it to be a struggle.

He's got a good foundation, a good,
a good amount of, um, knowledge,

a good, a good amount of support.

I think that there's a lot of room for
shadowing and, uh, being out in being

out in, in the shop and, and meeting
with the designers and the project

managers and whomever else he's got
working there so that that person can

have a little bit more of a holistic
understanding of what everybody

does and their role in the business.

Uh, you know, if you're a sign
shop that's listening out there

and you have five people working
for you, you could be chaotic.

On the other side of that
fence is a non chaotic shop.

That has structure, it has people in
the right seats, it has systems, it

has processes, it has the onboarding
steps to bring on employees like this.

And I think today you heard
of a, of a large, a large

shop owner who has that dialed

in.

Yeah.

I think the, the number one thing
for me that I heard and picked up on,

well, yeah, I'll say two things, right?

You, you've already touched on
culture and I, I think we've

beat that one really well.

It's so important.

So, so important.

Um, but like the, the tactical piece that,
that James mentioned was that like the

one-on-ones with his project managers,
um, of just setting aside the time to

actually build work on that relationship.

You know, in a small shop, like if
you're the owner, you've got five people

working for you, is that's the, the
hypothetical that we're dealing with.

You still have to make time
for, for people to build.

You gotta build those relationships
with your team so that there's, that's a

critical component of the culture as well
is like, hey, you know, you hear it from

like a guys in the military all the time.

Like, I'm standing shoulder
to shoulder with somebody.

I know they're gonna get
the job done no matter what.

And when you have that relationship with,
with the team and leadership, uh, the

things that you can do, you could get
to 5 million without a sales rep, right?

You can like under promise, over
deliver every single time You can

deliver, uh, an impossible project
in four weeks for a client who just

threw their hands up and said, oops.

Like, Hey, we totally forgot about the
signage portion of this new development.

Um, we need you guys to,
to come through for us.

So to me, that was like the, the
more tactical piece that I see

a lot of owners skip over, have
one-on-ones with your people.

When you bring somebody new on, you
do tend to spend more time with them.

You let them shadow, you give them space.

But past a certain point, a a lot
of folks just throw 'em to the

fire, like take the time, set aside
the time to focus on their growth.

Like how do you bring them up
in the organization, right?

That that person that you, you
hired for a production assistant

probably doesn't wanna stay
production assistant forever, right?

Take the time to talk to them
about their goals for the future.

Um, how can you help them grow?

And, and I think ultimately
that's, that's part of how you

keep people around long term.

In this day and age where
people seem to come and go, it's

impossible to find good help.

All that stuff we hear every single day.

Right on man.

Boom.

Anything else?

I, I don't think there's
anything left to say.

That's it guys.

If you are interested in.

Uh, networking with other shop owners.

You are a shop owner or leadership.

Join our Facebook group.

It is completely free for shop owners.

It is a small group.

We only allow owners and
leadership into the group.

So there are not 12,000 people.

It is a safe space for you to chat about
these specific things, pricing, employees,

management, de-stress a little bit.

What was the, what was the
one I saw the other day?

Uh, did I mess up by buying a side shop
or was I crazy for buying a side shop?

The first response was,
yeah, just a little north of

batshit crazy for doing that.

So I like,

I like that last question that you asked
in our group where it was like, how

much money should you have in the bank?

And I'm like, oh, that stemmed
a, a ton of conversation.

I thought that was a great question.

So if you're interested in
joining and getting insights to.

Questions like that and seeing what other
shops are doing and how they're doing it.

This is the group

for you and if you're interested in
being a guest on the podcast, hit at us.

Hit us up at [email protected].

Alright, sounds good.

Roll credits.

So that's the episode.

I hope you enjoyed it.

I'd like to give one final shout out
to our sponsor, GCI Digital Printing

Grand Format Printer to the trade
GCI is not your average print shop.

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outsourcing, there are no excuses.

Mindset means no matter the job,
they'll have it done every time.

No other vendor will go to the
links that GCI does to ensure

you are a satisfied customer.

To hear more about their approach to
business, hop back into the archives

to episode nine where the guys
and I interview owner TJ Beat Act

about top tier customer experience.

If you're looking for a high quality
trade printer for banners, mesh,

core blasts and more, TJ and his
crew were small, GCI does them all.

Check them [email protected].

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